Mon 11/25 BE Game Thread (4 Games).

[TrueBlueJay]

I'm just not sure Creighton can recruit at the 4 and 5 star level consistently at this point in time. I hope I'm proven dead wrong.

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/156

Already 2 four star recruits coming in next season, and this is after having only a few months after having some more doors open up due to the jump to the Big East.

[Bluejay]

I'm just not sure Creighton can recruit at the 4 and 5 star level consistently at this point in time. I hope I'm proven dead wrong.

You might be right. However, I think St John's is the perfect illustration of the idea that when it comes to recruiting, fit is often more important than ranking.

[XUFan09]

FWIW Kenpom rankings as of today. Keep in mind that they're still weighted by preseason expectations until late January or something like that, and at this point the numbers still indicate more of a "trend" than anything statistically significant.

18 Creighton
23 Villanova
26 Georgetown
32 Xavier
44 Providence
59 St. John's
66 Butler
67 Marquette
87 Seton Hall
96 DePaul

That's a very balanced group, but like some have said, there's an absence of "great" teams (I'm assuming people mean something like a top 10 team). This year there are 36 at-large bids. If you assume eight potential at-large teams end up winning their conference tournaments instead (might be a big assumption), then Providence slips in at the very end as the fifth Big East team and no one else makes it (though St. John's, Butler, and Marquette are within the ballpark). Granted, at-large bids are determined by more than just one aggregate number, but this gives us an idea of how the season is developing for the conference. It's not good, nor is it bad; it's just okay.

Xavier specifically has been trending up in the rankings each game of this young season, but the Battle 4 Atlantis presents the first really strong test (the Tennessee game at home was a decent test that they passed, at least). Concerning that tournament, I predict that the Iowa/Xavier loser ends up winning the consolation championship for fifth place, and Villanova ends up playing for third place (unless the Wildcats can pull off the big upset of KU).

[stever20]

For Marquette- this weekend is crucial. With 2 OOC losses already, and games with Wisconsin and even New Mexico in December- can't afford but at most 1 loss this weekend. If they go 1-2, and just split with Wisconsn/New Mexico- that's 5 OOC losses. If they go 10-8 in conference that's 18-13- and unless they made the final no chance at 20 wins. Fortuantely for them they get CS Fullerton and Miami 1st 2 rounds.

[TheHall]

I'm just not sure Creighton can recruit at the 4 and 5 star level consistently at this point in time. I hope I'm proven dead wrong.

You might be right. However, I think St John's is the perfect illustration of the idea that when it comes to recruiting, fit is often more important than ranking.

Not so great game day coaching may be what you're noticing more than to fit. Lavs has always been known as a great recruiter and getting players to the league, not X's & O's. I know about his assistant coaches SJU fans, just saying.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I'm just not sure Creighton can recruit at the 4 and 5 star level consistently at this point in time. I hope I'm proven dead wrong.

You might be right. However, I think St John's is the perfect illustration of the idea that when it comes to recruiting, fit is often more important than ranking.

I think part of it for SJU is that they just need to spend more time playing together. For all of the talent that they brought in it seems that every year it is a new team in Queens. Harkless leaves, a couple young talents step in; Harrison gets suspended; Jordan gets suspended; Orlando S. comes in, Godsgift comes back. I always feel that the Johnnies lack an awareness of their roles on that team. Players chuck when they get the ball b/c maybe they either want to prove that they are "the man" in that talent-filled locker room, or are just poorly coached, or maybe they haven't played together long enough to have the roles sort themselves out. I thought last year when looking at PC that they needed to learn how to win. They seemed to have done that and I think they take a step forward this year. I think SJU just needs to learn how to play as a single unit and not as a collection of individuals. If they figure that out, they are the best team in the BE this year IMO.

[stever20]

The Xavier coaching staff was informed by the NCAA that it will not count. I can't speak for what independent numbers guys decide to do though.

One thing that means though is that it won't count towards the win total for the season. By that I mean right now you'd be 4-0 instead of 5-0. That's how they treat all non-d1 teams.

[XUFan09]

The Xavier coaching staff was informed by the NCAA that it will not count. I can't speak for what independent numbers guys decide to do though.

One thing that means though is that it won't count towards the win total for the season. By that I mean right now you'd be 4-0 instead of 5-0. That's how they treat all non-d1 teams.

True, but it's such a meaningless win that it doesn't really matter. Sure, the 20-win threshold is nice and now slightly harder to reach, but "20 wins = tourney bid" is much more correlation than causation. If a team has hit 20 wins while playing a decent schedule, they've probably been doing other things right to earn the bid.

[stever20]

The Xavier coaching staff was informed by the NCAA that it will not count. I can't speak for what independent numbers guys decide to do though.

One thing that means though is that it won't count towards the win total for the season. By that I mean right now you'd be 4-0 instead of 5-0. That's how they treat all non-d1 teams.

True, but it's such a meaningless win that it doesn't really matter. Sure, the 20-win threshold is nice and now slightly harder to reach, but "20 wins = tourney bid" is much more correlation than causation. If a team has hit 20 wins while playing a decent schedule, they've probably been doing other things right to earn the bid.

At least last year 20 wins was the minimum to get in. Even then, wasn't a guarantee. No at large won fewer than 20 games.

[XUFan09]

At least last year 20 wins was the minimum to get in. Even then, wasn't a guarantee. No at large won fewer than 20 games.

I'll say it more directly: Correlation does not equal causation. Twenty win wasn't "the minimum." It's just really hard to have a good enough resume when not hitting that threshold. If a team only wins 18 or 19 games, that team is less likely to have accrued enough good wins or avoided enough bad losses. If Xavier finishes the season with 19 wins with the Abiline Christian game not counting, their resume will be no different than if they had finished this season with 20 wins with that game counting. The Selection Committee will see the same overall performance.