Mon 11/25 BE Game Thread (4 Games).

[stever20]

So far the Big East has shaped out kind of like I expected (and feared). Everyone is solid. Nobody is really good. While this is awesome for competition and games in conference, it's going to hurt the conference perception since teams are going to be beating up on each other every week. With the fact that nobody is going to run through conference games (or really get any marquee conference wins) these OOC games become even more important on the tournament resume. Unfortunately, to this point most Big East teams haven't really capitalized. Not having bad losses is great and we've done a good job of avoiding those for the most part, but eventually you actually have to win some big games (especially the nationally televised ones) to help the conference perception and tourney resume.

It's still early and there is still some time to get some of those big wins for the conference but the direction things are going I'd be kind of shocked if we got more than 4 bids.

I think 5 is possible. I mean- looked at the projected standings on Ken Pom- he's got 5 teams at 10-8 or better. One of those is Providence at 10-8, with an overall record of 20-11. That's right there on the bubble most years. It's close enough to where though say they lose a game he's got them winning in conference- taking them to 9-9 and 19-12- that's really questionable. For them to feel comfortable if they go 9-9 or 10-8, I think they need to win 1 between Kentucky and UMass. For one that gets them to 11-2 OOC- and it gives them their big OOC win.

He's got Xavier and Providence at 10-8 both in 4th/5th. Providence at 20-11 and Xavier at 19-10(with 2 more games this week to be added once known). Let's say Xavier splits- so both at 20-11. I could easily see the Providence/Xavier game in the BET being a knockout game- though I would say with the much tougher OOC schedule, Xavier would have much more of a shot to get in if they lost that game.

[aughnanure]

First game I've been encouraged with Marquette's offense so far. Derrick looking like he has finally grown some offensively as a PG and Jake Thomas finally getting some confidence (hopefully). Didn't even have Mayo, and he wouldve helped when Marquette was digging that hole in first game.

Defense wasn't great, but it's the strategy Buzz does (double team down low, have forwards follow high off backcourt picks) so it'll look terrible if players are rotating correctly and quickly. Steve Taylor still doesn't understand where he needs to go, as he allowed 2 dunks to go by him right away and got pulled. He could be a beast for us offensively and on the glass, but not until he can stop giving up easy baskets.

Marquette will get where we need to be, but we need to win some of these OOC games to help our tourney resume and the conference. Hopefully we'll get another shot at ASU coming up in that tourney with Creighton (unless that would mean ASU beats Creighton. I forget how that is set up).

[stever20]

First game I've been encouraged with Marquette's offense so far. Derrick looking like he has finally grown some offensively as a PG and Jake Thomas finally getting some confidence (hopefully). Didn't even have Mayo, and he wouldve helped when Marquette was digging that hole in first game.

Defense wasn't great, but it's the strategy Buzz does (double team down low, have forwards follow high off backcourt picks) so it'll look terrible if players are rotating correctly and quickly. Steve Taylor still doesn't understand where he needs to go, as he allowed 2 dunks to go by him right away and got pulled. He could be a beast for us offensively and on the glass, but not until he can stop giving up easy baskets.

Marquette will get where we need to be, but we need to win some of these OOC games to help our tourney resume and the conference. Hopefully we'll get another shot at ASU coming up in that tourney with Creighton (unless that would mean ASU beats Creighton. I forget how that is set up).

I think you're in opposite brackets so couldn't play both Creighton and Arizona St.

[Bluejay]

Marquette will get where we need to be, but we need to win some of these OOC games to help our tourney resume and the conference. Hopefully we'll get another shot at ASU coming up in that tourney with Creighton (unless that would mean ASU beats Creighton. I forget how that is set up).

Creighton opens with Arizona St in the first round. Frankly, our defense is not near as good as Marquette's, so to say I am worried is an understatement. At least this year, we don't rebound as well either.

In some strange coincidence, we played ASU and Jahii Carson in a tourney last year in Vegas. We won that game by taking an early lead and turning it into a shootout. We just outshot them and they never were able to recover from that early lead, but Carson still had bunches of points. We lost our center from last year, so the Bachynski match up worries me almost as much as Carson match-up. Look for us to try to speed up tempo a ton and once again turn it into a shoot out. Sure hope our outside shooters are hot.

Having watched Marquette a few times, it is interesting how Creighton and Marquette are almost mirror images of one another. Creighton has shooters aplenty and wants to play really fast, but struggles on the defensive end. Marquette, on the other hand, seems to have a dearth of shooters (although you did have that one guy get hot last night), likes a more deliberate tempo and is really tough on defense.

[Bluejay]

So far the Big East has shaped out kind of like I expected (and feared). Everyone is solid. Nobody is really good. While this is awesome for competition and games in conference, it's going to hurt the conference perception since teams are going to be beating up on each other every week. With the fact that nobody is going to run through conference games (or really get any marquee conference wins) these OOC games become even more important on the tournament resume. Unfortunately, to this point most Big East teams haven't really capitalized. Not having bad losses is great and we've done a good job of avoiding those for the most part, but eventually you actually have to win some big games (especially the nationally televised ones) to help the conference perception and tourney resume.

I am kind of getting the same feeling unfortunately - quite a few solid teams, but no great teams. We are where we are in the conference RPI standings not because the top teams are great, but rather the lower teams are not horrible.

Without any premiere noncon wins, there is going to have to be some real separation between the top teams and the second tier teams in the conference standings or bids are going to be hard to come by. On top of that, the bids we do get are not going to be good seeds.

[Demon22]

Jahii Carson and Arizona State are pretty underrated IMO. Would've been a very good win for Marquette come March.

Not for nothing, but DePaul beat Arizona State last year.

...by 17 points.

...in Tempe.

...and they beat 'em the year before that on a neutral court by four points, too.

[Cio]

First game I've been encouraged with Marquette's offense so far. Derrick looking like he has finally grown some offensively as a PG and Jake Thomas finally getting some confidence (hopefully). Didn't even have Mayo, and he wouldve helped when Marquette was digging that hole in first game.

Defense wasn't great, but it's the strategy Buzz does (double team down low, have forwards follow high off backcourt picks) so it'll look terrible if players are rotating correctly and quickly. Steve Taylor still doesn't understand where he needs to go, as he allowed 2 dunks to go by him right away and got pulled. He could be a beast for us offensively and on the glass, but not until he can stop giving up easy baskets.

Marquette will get where we need to be, but we need to win some of these OOC games to help our tourney resume and the conference. Hopefully we'll get another shot at ASU coming up in that tourney with Creighton (unless that would mean ASU beats Creighton. I forget how that is set up).

I think you're in opposite brackets so couldn't play both Creighton and Arizona St.

Wooden Legacy Tournament Bracket.
http://espn.go.com/pdf/2013/0716/ncb_wo ... racket.pdf

Marquette will play one of four teams from Creighton/ASU/San Diego St./College of Charleston.

[Lavinwood]

I agree guys. I guess I was hoping that Marquette, G'Town, Nova, and Creighton would be the national powers that put us on the map all ranked, then tier 2 SJ, PC, Butler, Xavier, then tier 3 SHU and DePaul. That's how I saw it going, but it looks like no team is going to run away with anything. That may result in 2-3 ranked teams anywhere from 17-25 by year's end. Unfortunately that will result in bad seeding. I think we should also keep in mind that this is a transition. It's the first year. We all know Nova, G'Town, and Marquette will have those years where they are ranked most of the season if not all. I'm just not sure that year is this year. Creighton is great this year, but worries me a ton next year losing their recruit who was 3 star (I think) and turned into a 5 star all world player (McD). I'm just not sure Creighton can recruit at the 4 and 5 star level consistently at this point in time. I hope I'm proven dead wrong.

We are still clearly a major hoops conference, but there are too many solid teams as others have said. The way SJ recruits, we should be among the Marquette's, Villanova's, G'Town's, and Creighton's in terms of a tier 1 team that shows clear separation from the rest of the pack, but I don't see it happening unfortunately. I miss the Marquette with Jae Crowder and Vander Blue. That was a legitimate top 15 squad. With Marquette now out of the top 25, we need Nova, PC, and Xavier to keep up their great starts. We need to start scheduling more ranked OOC opponents early in the year so we can get those signature wins. In the old Big East I remember thinking to myself "Ok we lost...no big deal...we still have 7 or 8 chances at top 25 teams". That's not true anymore. Now we really have to win those 2-4 ranked games if we want any recognition especially in the top 25.

[stever20]

I agree guys. I guess I was hoping that Marquette, G'Town, Nova, and Creighton would be the national powers that put us on the map all ranked, then tier 2 SJ, PC, Butler, Xavier, then tier 3 SHU and DePaul. That's how I saw it going, but it looks like no team is going to run away with anything. That may result in 2-3 ranked teams anywhere from 17-25 by year's end. Unfortunately that will result in bad seeding. I think we should also keep in mind that this is a transition. It's the first year. We all know Nova, G'Town, and Marquette will have those years where they are ranked most of the season if not all. I'm just not sure that year is this year. Creighton is great this year, but worries me a ton next year losing their recruit who was 3 star (I think) and turned into a 5 star all world player (McD). I'm just not sure Creighton can recruit at the 4 and 5 star level consistently at this point in time. I hope I'm proven dead wrong.

We are still clearly a major hoops conference, but there are too many solid teams as others have said. The way SJ recruits, we should be among the Marquette's, Villanova's, G'Town's, and Creighton's in terms of a tier 1 team that shows clear separation from the rest of the pack, but I don't see it happening unfortunately. I miss the Marquette with Jae Crowder and Vander Blue. That was a legitimate top 15 squad. With Marquette now out of the top 25, we need Nova, PC, and Xavier to keep up their great starts. We need to start scheduling more ranked OOC opponents early in the year so we can get those signature wins. In the old Big East I remember thinking to myself "Ok we lost...no big deal...we still have 7 or 8 chances at top 25 teams". That's not true anymore. Now we really have to win those 2-4 ranked games if we want any recognition especially in the top 25.

The thing like I said earlier- the model for scheduling is a lot different now than ever before. More of the OOC games are in those exempt tournaments where you get 3-4 games. That's like a third of the OOC schedule. You have 8-10 other games-but with a lot of schools- they need the home games.

Also, I'm thinking after next year- we'll have teams more spread out in those exempt torunaments. Just a byproduct of the realignment.

[dmac80]

Didn't see the game, but by the looks of the looks of the box score, the Friars' bench was pretty worthless.

Their 4 star freshman Brandon Austin and 3 star freshman Rodney Bullock, both expected to play (Austin was a projected starter) are on indefinite suspension.