Lavinwood wrote:I think it's also key to remember that Whitehead wanted to be a Johnnie. If it were truly up to him and his coach had nothing to do with the bargaining, he'd be in Queens. He's a NYC kid. So enjoy him, but knowing he picked SJ over SH must hurt deep down. No offense but at this point not many big time recruits will choose SH over other Big East schools. The only team SH is clearly better than is DePaul in our conference. It seems to be a stagnant program. You guys need a new coach, new uniforms, and a fresh start. I think you're misled. Isaiah was taken hostage by his coach, and since you guys were the only team willing to give in to a coaches borderline illegal demands, that's where he ended up. Not because he wanted to "be the face of a program". Take the coach out of it and no way he chooses SH. You must know this at some level.
Anyway, it's not sour grapes…many articles were written about how shady it was and how SH stooped to their level. When all the other schools drop out of his recruitment because they know something is shady, is that not a red flag? It's like a fat girl everyone else says no to when she asks to dance, and then the one guy who ends up with her and says yes lowering his standards brags to those guys who said no. It's quite comical. One thing we will never have to worry about with Lavin is recruiting. Willard has to be careful, because soon the next big recruit's coach will demand HIS head coaching position in order to come to SH . I will be proud of SH when it can recruit a big name player without being strong-armed.
TheHall wrote:GumbyDamnit! wrote: "Hall" you and I have been getting along so well. Why did you take my comments as derogatory towards SHU? I thought I was being quite fair and impartial.
Come on DamnIt, calling my school's biggest recruit in the last 10+ years "borderline slimy & disgusting" is about as derogatory as it gets. And that's for something that is hiding from no one & in plain sight. The school administration & most of the industry guys are more than fine with it and you know this. Yet you're using the same lines as dudes who don't know the difference b/n "street agents" and high school coaches. Posters who don't know that SHU needed to upgrade it coaching staff & would be happy as hell if Tiny Morton came on board even w/out IW. Posters who act like SJU didn't just dump an assistant coach (former NYC high school coach too) for not bringing in city recruits. Posters who are mad that they haven't turned a top 5 recruiting class three years ago into one week in the rankings.
GumbyDamnit! wrote:As a fan without a dog in this fight I'd say you both are looking at this with blinders on. For the SJU fans I would simply say: welcome to the world of college athletics. Willard did what he had to in order to secure the most important recruit in his tenure. Without showing much progress on the court the last few years he needed to make a recruiting splash or be left behind in this highly competitive league. Wen the pressure is on to succeed many coaches will do whatever it takes, morals be damned.
And to the SHU fan I would hope that you would see that the timing of bringing in the coach of said prized recruit, although perfectly legal, borders on slimy desperation. Will the next recruit's Aunt be brought in to the Admin area "because she was a really good at typing" and we needed someone who could type fast."???
TheHall wrote:
So maybe I got it mixed up Gumby. You weren't talking about IW you were actually talking about Willard. People who see it your way seem to be taking a "holy-er than thou" attitude that smacks of cheap envy & hypocrisy. What percentage of assistant coach aren't hired to bring in recruits based on connections? Just b/c you feel absolution if the recruit comes after the coach instead of before or at the same time doesn't make it anything more than semantics. The entire business of cbb recruiting has issues, but it seems like you want to ignore that and carve out this small piece to hold up as "slimy". I may make jokes about Baron Davis & Lavs, but I've never gone as far as you guys about any BE coaches, even that coach up in Canada when he was in the league. It shines a bad light on the league not just the team.
But factually, you should know this is exactly what the rule was set-up for, you may not like it but who cares it's not a Nova recruit. But to be talking down about Willard & SHU at the same time the program is coming back up after 10 years is nothing but hating. It's hilarious that this is coming from two factions who this year both embarrassingly lost out on heralded local recruits in SJU (IW) & Nova (Newton), misery loves company maybe? This is a stale old argument that people who see it your way already lost. There's no more to the story. SHU is recruiting 2015 & beyond.
GumbyDamnit! wrote:TheHall wrote:
So maybe I got it mixed up Gumby. You weren't talking about IW you were actually talking about Willard. People who see it your way seem to be taking a "holy-er than thou" attitude that smacks of cheap envy & hypocrisy. What percentage of assistant coach aren't hired to bring in recruits based on connections? Just b/c you feel absolution if the recruit comes after the coach instead of before or at the same time doesn't make it anything more than semantics. The entire business of cbb recruiting has issues, but it seems like you want to ignore that and carve out this small piece to hold up as "slimy". I may make jokes about Baron Davis & Lavs, but I've never gone as far as you guys about any BE coaches, even that coach up in Canada when he was in the league. It shines a bad light on the league not just the team.
But factually, you should know this is exactly what the rule was set-up for, you may not like it but who cares it's not a Nova recruit. But to be talking down about Willard & SHU at the same time the program is coming back up after 10 years is nothing but hating. It's hilarious that this is coming from two factions who this year both embarrassingly lost out on heralded local recruits in SJU (IW) & Nova (Newton), misery loves company maybe? This is a stale old argument that people who see it your way already lost. There's no more to the story. SHU is recruiting 2015 & beyond.
Hall I am not going to go down the rabbit hole with you and get into another pissing match b/c I have decided it is pointless. So I will try to stay on the level. Let me clarify a few things for you. I have said on countless occasions that I wanted to see SHU succeed. It's good for the conference; it's good for the program I root for. When conference mates make and succeed in the tourney all schools win. Schools like Marq, Nova and Gtwn have been making FF's and E8's and SW16's consistently for the past decade. SHU has literally profited from that success in terms of NCAA units. I will absolutely look forward to the day--hopefully in the not so distant future--when SHU can join them and start pulling their weight, and return the favor. That's what conference affiliation is all about. We battle but take care of each other. So enough with the "you're a h8er" routine. It just makes you look juvenile when that is what your arguments inevitably arrive at. I know you are excited about your recruiting class; you should be. But please stop with the "everyone is jealous of SHU" crap. Jealous of SHU? Really?
Also if you are going to present yourself as some recruiting guru please learn what really happened. JW was looking for a lead guard. He offered both Booth and Newton. It got to the point where he basically said to both: "I'm looking for a guard. If you accept our offer, the position is yours." Newton decided he wasn't ready even though all reports were that he was a Nova lean; Booth jumped at the chance to play at a university and under a coach that has produced some terrific guards. When Booth accepted JW pulled the offer from Newton. So if you think that landing a Top 100 guard, when we needed a guard, is some kind of "embarrassing" miss, than I guess JW is guilty as charged.
TheHall wrote:GumbyDamnit! wrote:As a fan without a dog in this fight I'd say you both are looking at this with blinders on. For the SJU fans I would simply say: welcome to the world of college athletics. Willard did what he had to in order to secure the most important recruit in his tenure. Without showing much progress on the court the last few years he needed to make a recruiting splash or be left behind in this highly competitive league. Wen the pressure is on to succeed many coaches will do whatever it takes, morals be damned.
And to the SHU fan I would hope that you would see that the timing of bringing in the coach of said prized recruit, although perfectly legal, borders on slimy desperation. Will the next recruit's Aunt be brought in to the Admin area "because she was a really good at typing" and we needed someone who could type fast."???
So maybe I got it mixed up Gumby. You weren't talking about IW you were actually talking about Willard. People who see it your way seem to be taking a "holy-er than thou" attitude that smacks of cheap envy & hypocrisy. What percentage of assistant coach aren't hired to bring in recruits based on connections? Just b/c you feel absolution if the recruit comes after the coach instead of before or at the same time doesn't make it anything more than semantics. The entire business of cbb recruiting has issues, but it seems like you want to ignore that and carve out this small piece to hold up as "slimy". I may make jokes about Baron Davis & Lavs, but I've never gone as far as you guys about any BE coaches, even that coach up in Canada when he was in the league. It shines a bad light on the league not just the team.
But factually, you should know this is exactly what the rule was set-up for, you may not like it but who cares it's not a Nova recruit. But to be talking down about Willard & SHU at the same time the program is coming back up after 10 years is nothing but hating. It's hilarious that this is coming from two factions who this year both embarrassingly lost out on heralded local recruits in SJU (IW) & Nova (Newton), misery loves company maybe? This is a stale old argument that people who see it your way already lost. There's no more to the story. SHU is recruiting 2015 & beyond.
TheHall wrote:So Tiny Morton is a street agent now? So SHU & Willard's integrity should be called into question compared to SJU & Lavs? So if rival fans were saying these things about your program what would you be saying?
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