Rumblings of SJ closing in on two 5 star recruits for 2015

[Lavinwood]

I think it's also key to remember that Whitehead wanted to be a Johnnie. If it were truly up to him and his coach had nothing to do with the bargaining, he'd be in Queens. He's a NYC kid. So enjoy him, but knowing he picked SJ over SH must hurt deep down. No offense but at this point not many big time recruits will choose SH over other Big East schools. The only team SH is clearly better than is DePaul in our conference. It seems to be a stagnant program. You guys need a new coach, new uniforms, and a fresh start. I think you're misled. Isaiah was taken hostage by his coach, and since you guys were the only team willing to give in to a coaches borderline illegal demands, that's where he ended up. Not because he wanted to "be the face of a program". Take the coach out of it and no way he chooses SH. You must know this at some level.

Anyway, it's not sour grapes…many articles were written about how shady it was and how SH stooped to their level. When all the other schools drop out of his recruitment because they know something is shady, is that not a red flag? It's like a fat girl everyone else says no to when she asks to dance, and then the one guy who ends up with her and says yes lowering his standards brags to those guys who said no. It's quite comical. One thing we will never have to worry about with Lavin is recruiting. Willard has to be careful, because soon the next big recruit's coach will demand HIS head coaching position in order to come to SH . I will be proud of SH when it can recruit a big name player without being strong-armed.

[Hall2012]

I think it's also key to remember that Whitehead wanted to be a Johnnie. If it were truly up to him and his coach had nothing to do with the bargaining, he'd be in Queens. He's a NYC kid. So enjoy him, but knowing he picked SJ over SH must hurt deep down. No offense but at this point not many big time recruits will choose SH over other Big East schools. The only team SH is clearly better than is DePaul in our conference. It seems to be a stagnant program. You guys need a new coach, new uniforms, and a fresh start. I think you're misled. Isaiah was taken hostage by his coach, and since you guys were the only team willing to give in to a coaches borderline illegal demands, that's where he ended up. Not because he wanted to "be the face of a program". Take the coach out of it and no way he chooses SH. You must know this at some level.

Anyway, it's not sour grapes…many articles were written about how shady it was and how SH stooped to their level. When all the other schools drop out of his recruitment because they know something is shady, is that not a red flag? It's like a fat girl everyone else says no to when she asks to dance, and then the one guy who ends up with her and says yes lowering his standards brags to those guys who said no. It's quite comical. One thing we will never have to worry about with Lavin is recruiting. Willard has to be careful, because soon the next big recruit's coach will demand HIS head coaching position in order to come to SH . I will be proud of SH when it can recruit a big name player without being strong-armed.

Lol. Dude, you're delusional.

[GumbyDamnit!]

"Hall" you and I have been getting along so well. Why did you take my comments as derogatory towards SHU? I thought I was being quite fair and impartial.

Come on DamnIt, calling my school's biggest recruit in the last 10+ years "borderline slimy & disgusting" is about as derogatory as it gets. And that's for something that is hiding from no one & in plain sight. The school administration & most of the industry guys are more than fine with it and you know this. Yet you're using the same lines as dudes who don't know the difference b/n "street agents" and high school coaches. Posters who don't know that SHU needed to upgrade it coaching staff & would be happy as hell if Tiny Morton came on board even w/out IW. Posters who act like SJU didn't just dump an assistant coach (former NYC high school coach too) for not bringing in city recruits. Posters who are mad that they haven't turned a top 5 recruiting class three years ago into one week in the rankings.

Hall, since you like to quote me, please show me where I typed the word "disgusting" to describe IW? I guess you missed where I said that "Willard did what he had to do (to land IW)." I also said that this is what is the norm in college athletics these days. SHU is acting like other programs who do whatever they think they have to in order to secure a player they really want. To hire the coach of a recruit, as a recruiting strategy, is a desperate move IMO. I guess you disagree. Sooo sensitive...

[TheHall]

As a fan without a dog in this fight I'd say you both are looking at this with blinders on. For the SJU fans I would simply say: welcome to the world of college athletics. Willard did what he had to in order to secure the most important recruit in his tenure. Without showing much progress on the court the last few years he needed to make a recruiting splash or be left behind in this highly competitive league. Wen the pressure is on to succeed many coaches will do whatever it takes, morals be damned.
And to the SHU fan I would hope that you would see that the timing of bringing in the coach of said prized recruit, although perfectly legal, borders on slimy desperation. Will the next recruit's Aunt be brought in to the Admin area "because she was a really good at typing" and we needed someone who could type fast."???

So maybe I got it mixed up Gumby. You weren't talking about IW you were actually talking about Willard. People who see it your way seem to be taking a "holy-er than thou" attitude that smacks of cheap envy & hypocrisy. What percentage of assistant coach aren't hired to bring in recruits based on connections? Just b/c you feel absolution if the recruit comes after the coach instead of before or at the same time doesn't make it anything more than semantics. The entire business of cbb recruiting has issues, but it seems like you want to ignore that and carve out this small piece to hold up as "slimy". I may make jokes about Baron Davis & Lavs, but I've never gone as far as you guys about any BE coaches, even that coach up in Canada when he was in the league. It shines a bad light on the league not just the team.

But factually, you should know this is exactly what the rule was set-up for, you may not like it but who cares it's not a Nova recruit. But to be talking down about Willard & SHU at the same time the program is coming back up after 10 years is nothing but hating. It's hilarious that this is coming from two factions who this year both embarrassingly lost out on heralded local recruits in SJU (IW) & Nova (Newton), misery loves company maybe? This is a stale old argument that people who see it your way already lost. There's no more to the story. SHU is recruiting 2015 & beyond.

[bman95]

Lavinwood - The only place that you will read that Whitehead "wanted" to go to SJU was on your own message boards where they are confusing a quote where Tiny Morton "wanted" to be a coach at SJU, and where Whithead and his family "wanted" to stay close to his home (which is what happened).
I agree that hiring his coach would get other schools a little pissed, but the fact of the matter is Willard is as clean as any coach out there (which may be why he always had trouble closing on recruits). If anything comes out in the future that Willard cheated the I will hand my head in shame, but please remember that Lavin is believed to be a big cheat and there are numerous articles saying so (I found the one below after a 30 second google search). So basically what I'm saying is if you live in a glass house than you shouldn't be making claims that Willard of all people broke any rules. Two years ago when Kyle Anderson was telling everyone he was going to SHU 2 weeks before his decision, until an UCLA booster/agent offered his father compensation, Willard finally decided to step up his game and get creative. And I'm glad he did, because all SHU fans will tell you that he always had problems closing a recruit.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketb ... ecruitment

good luck with the '15 recruits

[GumbyDamnit!]

So maybe I got it mixed up Gumby. You weren't talking about IW you were actually talking about Willard. People who see it your way seem to be taking a "holy-er than thou" attitude that smacks of cheap envy & hypocrisy. What percentage of assistant coach aren't hired to bring in recruits based on connections? Just b/c you feel absolution if the recruit comes after the coach instead of before or at the same time doesn't make it anything more than semantics. The entire business of cbb recruiting has issues, but it seems like you want to ignore that and carve out this small piece to hold up as "slimy". I may make jokes about Baron Davis & Lavs, but I've never gone as far as you guys about any BE coaches, even that coach up in Canada when he was in the league. It shines a bad light on the league not just the team.

But factually, you should know this is exactly what the rule was set-up for, you may not like it but who cares it's not a Nova recruit. But to be talking down about Willard & SHU at the same time the program is coming back up after 10 years is nothing but hating. It's hilarious that this is coming from two factions who this year both embarrassingly lost out on heralded local recruits in SJU (IW) & Nova (Newton), misery loves company maybe? This is a stale old argument that people who see it your way already lost. There's no more to the story. SHU is recruiting 2015 & beyond.

Hall I am not going to go down the rabbit hole with you and get into another pissing match b/c I have decided it is pointless. So I will try to stay on the level. Let me clarify a few things for you. I have said on countless occasions that I wanted to see SHU succeed. It's good for the conference; it's good for the program I root for. When conference mates make and succeed in the tourney all schools win. Schools like Marq, Nova and Gtwn have been making FF's and E8's and SW16's consistently for the past decade. SHU has literally profited from that success in terms of NCAA units. I will absolutely look forward to the day--hopefully in the not so distant future--when SHU can join them and start pulling their weight, and return the favor. That's what conference affiliation is all about. We battle but take care of each other. So enough with the "you're a h8er" routine. It just makes you look juvenile when that is what your arguments inevitably arrive at. I know you are excited about your recruiting class; you should be. But please stop with the "everyone is jealous of SHU" crap. Jealous of SHU? Really?

Also if you are going to present yourself as some recruiting guru please learn what really happened. JW was looking for a lead guard. He offered both Booth and Newton. It got to the point where he basically said to both: "I'm looking for a guard. If you accept our offer, the position is yours." Newton decided he wasn't ready even though all reports were that he was a Nova lean; Booth jumped at the chance to play at a university and under a coach that has produced some terrific guards. When Booth accepted JW pulled the offer from Newton. So if you think that landing a Top 100 guard, when we needed a guard, is some kind of "embarrassing" miss, than I guess JW is guilty as charged.

[TheHall]

So maybe I got it mixed up Gumby. You weren't talking about IW you were actually talking about Willard. People who see it your way seem to be taking a "holy-er than thou" attitude that smacks of cheap envy & hypocrisy. What percentage of assistant coach aren't hired to bring in recruits based on connections? Just b/c you feel absolution if the recruit comes after the coach instead of before or at the same time doesn't make it anything more than semantics. The entire business of cbb recruiting has issues, but it seems like you want to ignore that and carve out this small piece to hold up as "slimy". I may make jokes about Baron Davis & Lavs, but I've never gone as far as you guys about any BE coaches, even that coach up in Canada when he was in the league. It shines a bad light on the league not just the team.

But factually, you should know this is exactly what the rule was set-up for, you may not like it but who cares it's not a Nova recruit. But to be talking down about Willard & SHU at the same time the program is coming back up after 10 years is nothing but hating. It's hilarious that this is coming from two factions who this year both embarrassingly lost out on heralded local recruits in SJU (IW) & Nova (Newton), misery loves company maybe? This is a stale old argument that people who see it your way already lost. There's no more to the story. SHU is recruiting 2015 & beyond.

Hall I am not going to go down the rabbit hole with you and get into another pissing match b/c I have decided it is pointless. So I will try to stay on the level. Let me clarify a few things for you. I have said on countless occasions that I wanted to see SHU succeed. It's good for the conference; it's good for the program I root for. When conference mates make and succeed in the tourney all schools win. Schools like Marq, Nova and Gtwn have been making FF's and E8's and SW16's consistently for the past decade. SHU has literally profited from that success in terms of NCAA units. I will absolutely look forward to the day--hopefully in the not so distant future--when SHU can join them and start pulling their weight, and return the favor. That's what conference affiliation is all about. We battle but take care of each other. So enough with the "you're a h8er" routine. It just makes you look juvenile when that is what your arguments inevitably arrive at. I know you are excited about your recruiting class; you should be. But please stop with the "everyone is jealous of SHU" crap. Jealous of SHU? Really?

Also if you are going to present yourself as some recruiting guru please learn what really happened. JW was looking for a lead guard. He offered both Booth and Newton. It got to the point where he basically said to both: "I'm looking for a guard. If you accept our offer, the position is yours." Newton decided he wasn't ready even though all reports were that he was a Nova lean; Booth jumped at the chance to play at a university and under a coach that has produced some terrific guards. When Booth accepted JW pulled the offer from Newton. So if you think that landing a Top 100 guard, when we needed a guard, is some kind of "embarrassing" miss, than I guess JW is guilty as charged.

Where did I ever say that? Really I was just poking you on that one, do you really think I'm happy he went to the U (can't blame him for the weather though). But we got IW and Khadeen, the 2 best SG's in NYC, Booth & Newton could have still happened at Nova, right?

Anyways most of your first paragraph in this post is all I would hope from from rival BE fans, I'm not asking for any rival to be excited like SHU fans are. But when posters start calling people street agents, start saying our school is above that type of recruiting & talking down about the program believe I'm going to push back. Remember DamnIt you jumped in the middle of this after it was started by obviously jealous/bitter Johnny fans who were throwing all that mess out.....again.

[Lavinwood]

As a fan without a dog in this fight I'd say you both are looking at this with blinders on. For the SJU fans I would simply say: welcome to the world of college athletics. Willard did what he had to in order to secure the most important recruit in his tenure. Without showing much progress on the court the last few years he needed to make a recruiting splash or be left behind in this highly competitive league. Wen the pressure is on to succeed many coaches will do whatever it takes, morals be damned.
And to the SHU fan I would hope that you would see that the timing of bringing in the coach of said prized recruit, although perfectly legal, borders on slimy desperation. Will the next recruit's Aunt be brought in to the Admin area "because she was a really good at typing" and we needed someone who could type fast."???

So maybe I got it mixed up Gumby. You weren't talking about IW you were actually talking about Willard. People who see it your way seem to be taking a "holy-er than thou" attitude that smacks of cheap envy & hypocrisy. What percentage of assistant coach aren't hired to bring in recruits based on connections? Just b/c you feel absolution if the recruit comes after the coach instead of before or at the same time doesn't make it anything more than semantics. The entire business of cbb recruiting has issues, but it seems like you want to ignore that and carve out this small piece to hold up as "slimy". I may make jokes about Baron Davis & Lavs, but I've never gone as far as you guys about any BE coaches, even that coach up in Canada when he was in the league. It shines a bad light on the league not just the team.

But factually, you should know this is exactly what the rule was set-up for, you may not like it but who cares it's not a Nova recruit. But to be talking down about Willard & SHU at the same time the program is coming back up after 10 years is nothing but hating. It's hilarious that this is coming from two factions who this year both embarrassingly lost out on heralded local recruits in SJU (IW) & Nova (Newton), misery loves company maybe? This is a stale old argument that people who see it your way already lost. There's no more to the story. SHU is recruiting 2015 & beyond.

What's embarrassing about losing out on a recruit? You can make the case that Lavin is the best recruiter in the entire conference. We currently have 6 top 100's including a 5 star on the team. What about you? We are consistently involved with top 40 kids. We sent our rookie Harkless off to the NBA where he has been solid already at only 19 years old and appears ready for a good career. We smashed through the old Big East in 2011. We were in the top 25 and took down top 10 teams like they were cupcakes. Then unfortunately Kennedy got hurt and we didn't do anything in the tourney. At least we recently pulled our own weight and got on the national spotlight. Every year we need to restock we seem to be a top 15 caliber recruiting squad. We had the #2 in the nation in Lavin's first year, but a few players decommitted and one left early. Even without them Lavin has been amazing at recruiting, but with them we might have been a Sweet 16 or Elite 8 team if Harkless stayed. Our coach also had cancer and was out nearly all season. We have had bad luck recently, but we have much more recently to show for than SHU has in a long time. SHU had that one good year being a borderline top 25 team on and off, but they did jack in the tourney. They also didn't come close to beating the name brand top 10 schools Nova and SJU have beat recently. So I ask, jealous of SHU? I could laugh, but I don't want to. SHU is easily the 2nd worst program in the entire conference and very consistently at that. With that being said, I want you guys to succeed, but to dangle a shady recruit over our head that we said no to and call it "embarrassing" just shows immaturity IMO.

I'm very critical of our program here but one thing we never have to worry about is recruiting. We are in on two 5 star recruits and seen as the favorites for 2015. What are you guys doing other than throwing a IW party celebrating the first good recruit in what feels like a lifetime? Most of the Big East teams are used to good recruiting. Welcome to the table. Time to pull your weight in conference. I will always root for SHU in OOC matchups, but don't act like anyone is jealous of you guys. No one is...I can assure you. Except maybe DePaul fans, but then again they'd be jealous of nearly anyone with a pulse.

[TheHall]

So Tiny Morton is a street agent now? So SHU & Willard's integrity should be called into question compared to SJU & Lavs? So if rival fans were saying these things about your program what would you be saying?

[Lavinwood]

So Tiny Morton is a street agent now? So SHU & Willard's integrity should be called into question compared to SJU & Lavs? So if rival fans were saying these things about your program what would you be saying?

I'd be saying that as far as I've heard, there hasn't been anything shady with backdoor deals going on. The IW stuff was out in the open. It's known that his coach essentially demanded a position to get IW. That's not some conspiracy theory from a rival fan. It's the truth. Lavin doesn't have much tolerance for BS. He intentionally killed our NCAA hopes when we were on the bubble last year because Harrison was acting up. He also sat Obekpa out both exhibition games for something minor. Not sure Willard would have done the same especially in the Harrison case.

And by the way, I'm not trying to say we are squeaky clean, but I'd say generally we are relatively clean. Nothing huge has come onto the forefront like with IW's shady recruitment with us while Lavin's been here. And it's also not just SHU that needs to step up. It's us too. Just saying we have much more to show in the past 15 yrs or so. I can assure you most SJ fans are over the IW fiasco, but once things clear up and we are able to offer unlimited playing time to top recruits, they will come for Lavin. Give him credit...he got Jordan the #3 PG in the country even knowing that we had Branch and Harrison. That implies he sold it pretty well. Lavin has a nickname around the area...the closer. He ripped Obekpa from Cincy's grips in the 11th hour and gave us the best shot blocker in the country bar none. The kid is an absolute animal in zone defense. What shots he doesn't block he will alter. If he could play offense too it would be great, but I'll take amazing defense in the paint over average offense anyday.