Tues 11/19 BE Game Thread (3 Games).

[Bluejay]

Not sure why such a negative slant on a team that just got arguably the second or third best win for the conference so far. I also wonder why BU is getting such praise for getting down 8-0 from the start and then blowing a double digit lead late in regulation, at home. BU got a very gritty win no doubt, but so did SJU. Too much IQ talk thrown around like it's an objective metric anyone can gauge.

2nd or 3rd best win so far? Are you serious? Bucknell is not equal to Tennessee, Vandy, or even St Joe's(on the road no less). That's the top 3 right now I think....

I agree with stever. Bucknell is a nice little team from what would probably be considered a low-major conference. I'm glad that St Johns won, but let's not overplay where Bucknell stands in the general landscape. I even think that one could make the argument that DePauls' win ON THE ROAD at Milwaukee last night is a better win than a home win against Bucknell.

[TheHall]

Not sure why such a negative slant on a team that just got arguably the second or third best win for the conference so far. I also wonder why BU is getting such praise for getting down 8-0 from the start and then blowing a double digit lead late in regulation, at home. BU got a very gritty win no doubt, but so did SJU. Too much IQ talk thrown around like it's an objective metric anyone can gauge.

2nd or 3rd best win so far? Are you serious? Bucknell is not equal to Tennessee, Vandy, or even St Joe's(on the road no less). That's the top 3 right now I think....

I agree with stever. Bucknell is a nice little team from what would probably be considered a low-major conference. I'm glad that St Johns won, but let's not overplay where Bucknell stands in the general landscape. I even think that one could make the argument that DePauls' win ON THE ROAD at Milwaukee last night is a better win than a home win against Bucknell.

Wasn't my main point really. It was a good win, who knows how good until the end of the season.

[TheHall]

+1 St. John's looks like good kids who just haven't quite plugged in to the team play necessary at this level. Lot of upside, as has been said repeatedly. Butler, however, could be a huge surprise this year. Never expected the quality of play with all the losses they had. Yeah, it's early, but X and Butler are currently 5 and 7 in the Nolan RPI:
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2014/rpi

Not sure why such a negative slant on a team that just got arguably the second or third best win for the conference so far. I also wonder why BU is getting such praise for getting down 8-0 from the start and then blowing a double digit lead late in regulation, at home. BU got a very gritty win no doubt, but so did SJU. Too much IQ talk thrown around like it's an objective metric anyone can gauge.

2nd or 3rd best win so far? Are you serious? Bucknell is not equal to Tennessee, Vandy, or even St Joe's(on the road no less). That's the top 3 right now I think....

Stever20 your response deflects from my main point about how much criticism was being laid on a SJU team that is having a pretty good start to the season. I watched Duke play the other day and at times they looked terrible, especially Quinn Cook. Plenty of teams play well at times and not at others.

[stever20]

Stever20 your response deflects from my main point about how much criticism was being laid on a SJU team that is having a pretty good start to the season. I watched Duke play the other day and at times they looked terrible, especially Quinn Cook. Plenty of teams play well at times and not at others.[/quote]
My response is that it's hardly the 2nd or 3rd best win of the season so far. To say that they have had a pretty good start to the season is a joke- they got bum rushed vs Wisconsin, and then beaten 2 not so good teams at all. They've gone from 47-52 since the season started in Ken Pom. They at best have done just what was expected of them.

And yes, I did hear someone on ESPN I think last night say that Duke struggling last night gave them pause on just how good Duke is.

[TheHall]

+1 St. John's looks like good kids who just haven't quite plugged in to the team play necessary at this level. Lot of upside, as has been said repeatedly. Butler, however, could be a huge surprise this year. Never expected the quality of play with all the losses they had. Yeah, it's early, but X and Butler are currently 5 and 7 in the Nolan RPI:
http://warrennolan.com/basketball/2014/rpi

Not sure why such a negative slant on a team that just got arguably the second or third best win for the conference so far & only has one loss against a top 20 team. I also wonder why BU is getting such praise for getting down 8-0 from the start and then blowing a double digit lead late in regulation, at home. BU got a very gritty win no doubt, but so did SJU. Too much IQ talk thrown around like it's an objective metric anyone can gauge.

I tend to agree with the posters above but understand your point too. For me it's based on expectations. I have very little for BU this year but have heard The Johnnies are on the verge of a breakthrough.

The only thing about that is, it's your expectation not theirs. I have mine too, but saying a team is on the verge means they aren't there yet, same as BU. Who's really to say BU and SJU aren't on the same level, the season has just begun. If they are then why is starting slow and finishing weak signs of being "more than the sum" instead of bad bball IQ about time & score and shot selection.

[TheHall]

My response is that it's hardly the 2nd or 3rd best win of the season so far. To say that they have had a pretty good start to the season is a joke- they got bum rushed vs Wisconsin, and then beaten 2 not so good teams at all. They've gone from 47-52 since the season started in Ken Pom. They at best have done just what was expected of them.

And yes, I did hear someone on ESPN I think last night say that Duke struggling last night gave them pause on just how good Duke is.

That's as good an opinion about their season as mine...But at least I didn't base mine off the dreaded 5 spot KenPom drop after 3 games lol! I suspect if they would have lost or beat them by 50 you would still feel pretty much the same about them as you do now.

[stever20]

My response is that it's hardly the 2nd or 3rd best win of the season so far. To say that they have had a pretty good start to the season is a joke- they got bum rushed vs Wisconsin, and then beaten 2 not so good teams at all. They've gone from 47-52 since the season started in Ken Pom. They at best have done just what was expected of them.

And yes, I did hear someone on ESPN I think last night say that Duke struggling last night gave them pause on just how good Duke is.

That's as good an opinion about their season as mine...But at least I didn't base mine off the dreaded 5 spot KenPom drop after 3 games lol! I suspect if they would have lost or beat them by 50 you would still feel pretty much the same about them as you do now.

I think if you had asked any non-homer St John's fan at the start of the season where would they be after 2 weeks, I think 99.9% of them would have said right where they are right now. Actaully, maybe not 99.9% because I think a good bit of their fans would have expected to win last night by a lot more than 4 points. So to say that they've had a pretty good start to the season- I don't see how anyone can really say that. To me, the only good part to the start is they haven't had any bad losses yet.

I think you look at like a Providence. Now, they have had a good start to the season. I know the last 3 games were dogs for the most part- but they did win those all- and last 2 easily. And that was short-staffed.

[TheHall]

I think if you had asked any non-homer St John's fan at the start of the season where would they be after 2 weeks, I think 99.9% of them would have said right where they are right now. Actaully, maybe not 99.9% because I think a good bit of their fans would have expected to win last night by a lot more than 4 points. So to say that they've had a pretty good start to the season- I don't see how anyone can really say that. To me, the only good part to the start is they haven't had any bad losses yet.

I think you look at like a Providence. Now, they have had a good start to the season. I know the last 3 games were dogs for the most part- but they did win those all- and last 2 easily. And that was short-staffed.

What are you talking about. You make it seem like record alone is how you measure a team's progress. How can anyone say they knew how this team would gel, the team doesn't even know. That's why they play the games. I see progress/great signs in Obekpa, Sanchez, PG4, God's Gift, Branch (especially last game), Sampson, DH, scoring (75 ppg). I see negatives is defense & shooting. Decision making goes up & down just like on many teams without a bonafide pg. I know you watch the games, but to say you knew how Sanchez would look playing next to Obekpa vs. Sampson or Jordan's development pace c'mon.

[Bill Marsh]

My response is that it's hardly the 2nd or 3rd best win of the season so far. To say that they have had a pretty good start to the season is a joke- they got bum rushed vs Wisconsin, and then beaten 2 not so good teams at all. They've gone from 47-52 since the season started in Ken Pom. They at best have done just what was expected of them.

And yes, I did hear someone on ESPN I think last night say that Duke struggling last night gave them pause on just how good Duke is.

That's as good an opinion about their season as mine...But at least I didn't base mine off the dreaded 5 spot KenPom drop after 3 games lol! I suspect if they would have lost or beat them by 50 you would still feel pretty much the same about them as you do now.

I think if you had asked any non-homer St John's fan at the start of the season where would they be after 2 weeks, I think 99.9% of them would have said right where they are right now. Actaully, maybe not 99.9% because I think a good bit of their fans would have expected to win last night by a lot more than 4 points. So to say that they've had a pretty good start to the season- I don't see how anyone can really say that. To me, the only good part to the start is they haven't had any bad losses yet.

I think you look at like a Providence. Now, they have had a good start to the season. I know the last 3 games were dogs for the most part- but they did win those all- and last 2 easily. And that was short-staffed.

I may be the 1/10 of 1%, but I expected St. John's to be 3-0 at this point and I'm not a St. John's fan. I certainly didn't expect them to struggle against Bucknell. But forget about wins and losses. The most important thing that I expected of them was to be improved from last year. Mad what I've seen so far is the same old St. John's team that we saw last year. If they continue to play like this, the results won't be much different than last year's. The record may be better, but that will be because the schedule's not as tough. Ultimately it will be a disappointing season IF this kind of play continues.

I'm not making a prediction because the season is young and they may improve. But I can certainly say that it's been a disappointing start for the Red Storm.

[Bill Marsh]

I watched most of both the Butler and SJU games - first time I saw either play. Butler's "sum" is so much greater than the parts individually whereas SJU has remarkable individual talent that doesn't seem to have the highest basketball IQ. SJU sure looks the part of Big East hoops and they will win some games impressively but they'll also look like absolute garbage at times too.

I agree with you on all points.

I would just add that St. John's is badly in need of a take charge point guard who can get everyone involved and give the team some direction. I saw too many times when players were taking stand still jump shots. It's okay to have an offense that is initiated by a center on the high post, which I also saw a lot of last night, but he better be able to pass well enough to hit cutters and the other players must be able to take advantage of the open space in the paint to post up their defenders. I didn't see much of either last night.