BIG EAST vs. POWER CONFERENCES

[TheHall]

Cuse barely survived St. Francis at home. Right down to the wire. This Cuse team does not look like a world beater like in past years. They have flaws and they can be beaten. If I'm St. John's I see that game and smell blood in the water for our upcoming Dec. 15th game at MSG. Absolutely huge game. The timing is almost too perfect. Nothing would feel better than to see tens of thousands of Cuse fans going home upset and sad that they lost NYC by joining the ACC and leaving the Big East. When Boeheim leaves I really think the program will take a step back. The year to beat them is this year. Inexperienced, not dominant, and having trouble with some cupcakes.

Every year is the year to beat the Syracuse Judas's... But beat Bucknell first.

[stever20]

If you're going to do a different comparison, can you post it to a separate thread so this one does not get overly bogged down? I am just using the conferences we are looking to be compared to. We don't want to be compared to the A-10 or MVC. We want to be considered a power conference and have been includedin what is being called the Power 7. Just start a new posting and we will have both.

I will. But the problem with your comparison is that first off you are just posting our record with the other conferences. What context does that provide? What are the other conferences records? Are we 1st or are we 7th? Unfortuately we are 6th right now using your group- to only the SEC. If you are going to compare us, really compare us.

Also, the A10 and MWC- like it or not- they are some of our competition for at large spots in the tourney. That end of the day is what matters the most. You might not like it, but A10 and MWC are getting 3-4 bids in most all bracketology. You might want to be compared to just the BCS conference, but end of the day, we are being compared to the A10 and MWC. Also, end of the day the team that plays a ton of A10 vs games is VCU. Well they play 4 ACC teams and then the tournament. Those are 6 games that need to be in any comparison. they are a top 10 team for gosh sakes.

Lastly- the comparison just with the 7 conferences isn't a lot of games. I mean looking- you have some conferences with only 4 games right now. You add in the other 2 conferences, and you get a lot more comparisons. MWC has only 4 games so far- but because of them, Pac 12 goes up to 7 games(you really need that 2nd conference out west for the comparison for the Pac 12). A10 has 8 games so far. 12 more games might not sound like much but it is this early in the year.

[TheHall]

If you're going to do a different comparison, can you post it to a separate thread so this one does not get overly bogged down? I am just using the conferences we are looking to be compared to. We don't want to be compared to the A-10 or MVC. We want to be considered a power conference and have been includedin what is being called the Power 7. Just start a new posting and we will have both.

I will. But the problem with your comparison is that first off you are just posting our record with the other conferences. What context does that provide? What are the other conferences records? Are we 1st or are we 7th? Unfortuately we are 6th right now using your group- to only the SEC. If you are going to compare us, really compare us.

Also, the A10 and MWC- like it or not- they are some of our competition for at large spots in the tourney. That end of the day is what matters the most. You might not like it, but A10 and MWC are getting 3-4 bids in most all bracketology. You might want to be compared to just the BCS conference, but end of the day, we are being compared to the A10 and MWC. Also, end of the day the team that plays a ton of A10 vs games is VCU. Well they play 4 ACC teams and then the tournament. Those are 6 games that need to be in any comparison. they are a top 10 team for gosh sakes.

Lastly- the comparison just with the 7 conferences isn't a lot of games. I mean looking- you have some conferences with only 4 games right now. You add in the other 2 conferences, and you get a lot more comparisons. MWC has only 4 games so far- but because of them, Pac 12 goes up to 7 games(you really need that 2nd conference out west for the comparison for the Pac 12). A10 has 8 games so far. 12 more games might not sound like much but it is this early in the year.

If we don't finish in the top 3 who really cares...

[stever20]

we could finish 5th and get 4-5 teams in the tourney easily.

[TheHall]

we could finish 5th and get 4-5 teams in the tourney easily.

How the BE performs against the other POWER conference teams in the OOC and how many bids the BE gets are two unrelated metrics. Also 4 bids would be a total disappointment IMO.

[stever20]

we could finish 5th and get 4-5 teams in the tourney easily.

How the BE performs against the other POWER conference teams in the OOC and how many bids the BE gets are two unrelated metrics. Also 4 bids would be a total disappointment IMO.

totally disagree that they are unrelated metrics. They are totally related. If we crap the bed OOC, we aren't getting a lot of teams in period.

Also- 4 bids quite frankly- that's 40% of the conference. That would be equal to last year getting 6 in a 15 team conference. Or between 6-7 in the old 16 team Big East. You and a lot of folks got spoiled by getting 11 teams in the tourney. Having only 10 teams and playing a double round robin- that's going to complicate things big time. By 6th place they could be easily at 9-9. I'd rather have 4 teams in the tourney- with all having good seeds, than getting 6 in but none being higher than a 5 or 6 seed- with a ton of 7-10 seeds that get picked off in rd 2 easily vs 1/2 seeds. We'd be so much better off having 4 in, and getting 2 in the sweet 16 than getting 6 and having none in the sweet 16.

[SJUREDMEN85]

Cuse barely survived St. Francis at home. Right down to the wire. This Cuse team does not look like a world beater like in past years. They have flaws and they can be beaten. If I'm St. John's I see that game and smell blood in the water for our upcoming Dec. 15th game at MSG. Absolutely huge game. The timing is almost too perfect. Nothing would feel better than to see tens of thousands of Cuse fans going home upset and sad that they lost NYC by joining the ACC and leaving the Big East. When Boeheim leaves I really think the program will take a step back. The year to beat them is this year. Inexperienced, not dominant, and having trouble with some cupcakes.

Lavinwood, first I will say that I hate Syracuse and that little whiner Boeheim like no other and I really want to beat the living blank out of them in OUR DAMN HOME NOT THERE`S. Now with that being said, and I`m sure you know this but we have flaws also. So with that being said, lets get better every game and forget about Syracuse for now.

As for Bucknell. Brandon Tierney said after the Wagner game: Wagner came here thinking they could win, Bucknell is coming here expecting to win. They`ll test our 3-pnt defense.
We can`t bite on their pump fakes and do not collapse on defense when a player drives. That`s when they`ll kick it out to the opwn man for the 3.

[TheHall]

we could finish 5th and get 4-5 teams in the tourney easily.

How the BE performs against the other POWER conference teams in the OOC and how many bids the BE gets are two unrelated metrics. Also 4 bids would be a total disappointment IMO.

totally disagree that they are unrelated metrics. They are totally related. If we crap the bed OOC, we aren't getting a lot of teams in period.

Also- 4 bids quite frankly- that's 40% of the conference. That would be equal to last year getting 6 in a 15 team conference. Or between 6-7 in the old 16 team Big East. You and a lot of folks got spoiled by getting 11 teams in the tourney. Having only 10 teams and playing a double round robin- that's going to complicate things big time. By 6th place they could be easily at 9-9. I'd rather have 4 teams in the tourney- with all having good seeds, than getting 6 in but none being higher than a 5 or 6 seed- with a ton of 7-10 seeds that get picked off in rd 2 easily vs 1/2 seeds. We'd be so much better off having 4 in, and getting 2 in the sweet 16 than getting 6 and having none in the sweet 16.

That's just wrong. Marq winning or losing to OSU or the Hoyas winning/losing to Oregon has no bearing on whether these teams will make the NCAAT. If CU had lost at St. Joe's they wouldn't be any less likely to get a bid. Maybe one or two BE team's fate will hang on some of these early season games but those will be bubble teams. Are you saying you believe a good portion of the league (3-6 teams) will be on the bubble? If not, then for non-bubble teams these games are really more about seeding, not bids.

Also again with the loosely dependent metrics. How many bids the BE gets has no bearing on how far teams will go in the NCAAT. So why are you trying to make the argument that somehow 4 bids is sooo much better than 6? The BE philosophy has always been get as many in and see what happens. Not sure why you seem so easy to downgrade expectations of the league, comparing it to the MWC, saying 4 bids would be good when clearly there are at least 7 teams that should be in the mix. I know it's early but come on have some faith that meaningful ball will be played by BE teams in Jan, Feb & March (hopefully April too).

[stever20]

we don't know if the Marquette or Georgetown games would have an impact because we don't know where they will finish. I definitely believe that a good number of our teams will be on the bubble. I think conference play is going to be a ton of 10-8 or 9-9 teams. So, yes OOC means a whole hell of a lot. You go 9-9 in conference play and 8-5 OOC- that's 17-14 and that's generally speaking not going to get you in the tourney. Even if you go 10-3 OOC, if its a weak OOC schedule- that's only 19-12.

And you are just kidding yourself if you think seeding doesn't matter. There is a HUGE difference between a 3 seed and a 5 seed. There is a huge difference between a 6 seed and a 8 seed.
3 seed- rd 1 vs 14 seed 99-17. rd 2 vs 6 seed 44-37 vs 11 seed 31-12 total 75-49
5 seed rd 1 vs 12 seed 92-44 rd 2 vs 4 seed 37-46 vs 13 seed 11-3 total 48-49

6 seed rd 1 vs 11 seed 91-45 rd 2 vs 3 seed 37-44 vs 14 seed 12-2 total 49-46
7 seed rd 1 vs 10 seed 84-56 rd 2 vs 2 seed 21-61 vs 15 seed 2-1 total 23-62
8 seed rd 1 vs 9 seed 72-68 rd 2 vs 1 seed 14-60

so yes when you are really parsing it, the seed matters big time. You are playing the 1/2 seed compared to playing the 3 seed- that's huge.

[redmen9194]

Look, I have explained this over three different threads about 100 times. I am comparing how we do against the power conferences. I am doing that because at the end of the day, we want to be discussed with the ACC and Big Ten, not the Missouri Valley and Atlantic 10. I am doing it to gauge one thing only, how we do against the power leagues as the only power conference without football. It's not an RPI thread, it's not anything other than what I just said it was. Feel free to do any other analysis you want, that's want the boards are for, but this thread is just about the power leagues.