Marquette VS Ohio State

[Bulldog_Muskie]

I've got a bad vibe for Marquette in this one.

What does that have to do with Arkansas?

[XtoDC]

I don't know how much a Xavier/Arkansas game would be viewed positively. Arkansas isn't in that 2nd tier now in my mind at all. I think that list you gave- some are 2nd tier- but some are more 3rd tier. I mean Arkansas and Wisconsin aren't in the same stratosphere at all. Wisconsin and Florida yes- they're in the same boat. I think the only 2 that are in that Wisconsin/Florida boat are Marquette and Georgetown right now.

Sorry to derail this Ohio State - Marquette thread about whether Villanova or Marquette is a bigger brand name, but Xavier very recently had a home and home against Florida. It really hasn't been very hard for Xavier to fill up their OOC the last 5 - 10 years with several good home and homes and I doubt it will be for several other Big East teams. Obviously the top 6 or so "brands" are hard to get, but almost everyone else is very doable. It is just about if the schedules allow for it and who needs another home/away game a certain year.

Also, to most Midwest fans Arkansas really isn't that big of a name in basketball. I think the SEC outside of Kentucky is mostly the flavor of the week whoever happens to be on the upswing. Florida has established themselves as the clear #2, outside of that it is almost a pick em for me as to which team I would want to schedule.

[stever20]

I don't know how much a Xavier/Arkansas game would be viewed positively. Arkansas isn't in that 2nd tier now in my mind at all. I think that list you gave- some are 2nd tier- but some are more 3rd tier. I mean Arkansas and Wisconsin aren't in the same stratosphere at all. Wisconsin and Florida yes- they're in the same boat. I think the only 2 that are in that Wisconsin/Florida boat are Marquette and Georgetown right now.

Sorry to derail this Ohio State - Marquette thread about whether Villanova or Marquette is a bigger brand name, but Xavier very recently had a home and home against Florida. It really hasn't been very hard for Xavier to fill up their OOC the last 5 - 10 years with several good home and homes and I doubt it will be for several other Big East teams. Obviously the top 6 or so "brands" are hard to get, but almost everyone else is very doable. It is just about if the schedules allow for it and who needs another home/away game a certain year.

Also, to most Midwest fans Arkansas really isn't that big of a name in basketball. I think the SEC outside of Kentucky is mostly the flavor of the week whoever happens to be on the upswing. Florida has established themselves as the clear #2, outside of that it is almost a pick em for me as to which team I would want to schedule.

Totally will agree with you on Florida. They are the clear cut #2 in the SEC right now. Heck, could probably make the case that Tennessee is #3. Though it's tough to really say about Missouri.

it will be interesting to see how the scheduling continues to morph. it does seem like it's changed somewhat. Of course, you guys get the benefit of having a great OOC game every year due to having Cincy. That's almost always a good OOC matchup.

[MUSeashells&Balloons]

This argument is so childish. The problem is that outside of basketball fans people still think Marquette's in Michigan when I tell them my college. We have a lot of elite schools its childish to fight over them. Frankly it is embarrassing me as a Marquette fan and Im sure it is embarrassing for you Nova fans as well, not even including how childish the rest of you must think it is.

So hopefully we can grow up a little bit and respect each other as we all bring something to the table.

Dude I don't know where you're from but that's kinda weird. I'm only fighting with the guy who was sitting around putting MU down as if we'd only ever had one good year.

Im from Denver. And I know and I appreciate you sticking up for our school. But these pissing contests don't really make Marquette or Nova look very good.

[MUBoxer]

This argument is so childish. The problem is that outside of basketball fans people still think Marquette's in Michigan when I tell them my college. We have a lot of elite schools its childish to fight over them. Frankly it is embarrassing me as a Marquette fan and Im sure it is embarrassing for you Nova fans as well, not even including how childish the rest of you must think it is.

So hopefully we can grow up a little bit and respect each other as we all bring something to the table.

Dude I don't know where you're from but that's kinda weird. I'm only fighting with the guy who was sitting around putting MU down as if we'd only ever had one good year.

Im from Denver. And I know and I appreciate you sticking up for our school. But these pissing contests don't really make Marquette or Nova look very good.

And more people know of Marquette Michigan? A city smaller than the size of Depaul? I'll take your word for it. How did it become a "pissing contest" exactly though? For future reference when defending MU I'd like to stay on the side associated with less bodily functions

[GumbyDamnit!]

I stand by what I said about MU and Nova regarding National Cred. So far all the arguments (minus the one about more tournament appearances which you have one more if we're counting invites rather than appearances) are purely Big East specific. But the fact is the Big East isn't the end all be all of national credibility sorry to burst some bubbles. And I'm sorry Gumby but Al Mcguire vs Dean Smith was definitely just as big of a coaching match up as Rollie Massimino and John Thompson.

Who said anything about coaches? Honestly WTF does that have to do with anything? Georgetown was a team that made the championship game 3 out of 4 years. They were the closest thing to a dynasty since UCLA. That was probably the most iconic college hoops team in the 80's. Nova beat that team with Patrick Ewing as a senior and that year might have been the single most dominant year any conference has ever had. Nova shot 70% from the floor against perhaps the best defensive team in a long time. Every time the two teams meet it is mentioned. Maybe that, instead of who the coaches were, is the reason why it is remembered as one of the greatest tourney games of all time.

And in terms of the BE being "the end all, be all" who said that? The BE though has been the best college hoops league over the past 30 years. Do you disagree? 5 different programs have won NC's during that time (G'twn, Nova, Syr, Uconn & L'ville). It should have been 6 if SHU had not been robbed. So forgive me if I am proud of being a part of that excellence. Do you not think that Marq bettered its situation when it came over? Would the program be better or worse today had it just stayed in C-USA? Being in the best conference for the past 30 years is a factor whether or not you care to admit it.

Lastly how is having more tourney success overall an argument that is BE centric? Did you just ignore that one? And head to head all-time and in conference means nothing too right? Whatever Boxer. If your argument is that Marq made the E8 last year than you win...

[MUBoxer]

I stand by what I said about MU and Nova regarding National Cred. So far all the arguments (minus the one about more tournament appearances which you have one more if we're counting invites rather than appearances) are purely Big East specific. But the fact is the Big East isn't the end all be all of national credibility sorry to burst some bubbles. And I'm sorry Gumby but Al Mcguire vs Dean Smith was definitely just as big of a coaching match up as Rollie Massimino and John Thompson.

Who said anything about coaches? Honestly WTF does that have to do with anything? Georgetown was a team that made the championship game 3 out of 4 years. They were the closest thing to a dynasty since UCLA. That was probably the most iconic college hoops team in the 80's. Nova beat that team with Patrick Ewing as a senior and that year might have been the single most dominant year any conference has ever had. Nova shot 70% from the floor against perhaps the best defensive team in a long time. Every time the two teams meet it is mentioned. Maybe that, instead of who the coaches were, is the reason why it is remembered as one of the greatest tourney games of all time.

And in terms of the BE being "the end all, be all" who said that? The BE though has been the best college hoops league over the past 30 years. Do you disagree? 5 different programs have won NC's during that time (G'twn, Nova, Syr, Uconn & L'ville). It should have been 6 if SHU had not been robbed. So forgive me if I am proud of being a part of that excellence. Do you not think that Marq bettered its situation when it came over? Would the program be better or worse today had it just stayed in C-USA? Being in the best conference for the past 30 years is a factor whether or not you care to admit it.

Lastly how is having more tourney success overall an argument that is BE centric? Did you just ignore that one? And head to head all-time and in conference means nothing too right? Whatever Boxer. If your argument is that Marq made the E8 last year than you win...

I'm on my phone so for now I'm only going to respond to the first part. When you called into question MU's championship as if it was somehow less than yours because yours featured Nova vs GTown and degraded our by saying nobody would even know who we beat... like it or not beating UNC has always been and will always be a bigger feat than beating Georgetown. I'm not quite sure why you are so determined to knock MU down when I never said anything negative about Nova whatsoever. I don't know why you're bragging about the stats and players from that game either. But I guess whatever tickles your pickle. It sounds like you're getting upset perhaps take a breather. I'll respond to the rest of the post when I'm back from the bars.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I stand by what I said about MU and Nova regarding National Cred. So far all the arguments (minus the one about more tournament appearances which you have one more if we're counting invites rather than appearances) are purely Big East specific. But the fact is the Big East isn't the end all be all of national credibility sorry to burst some bubbles. And I'm sorry Gumby but Al Mcguire vs Dean Smith was definitely just as big of a coaching match up as Rollie Massimino and John Thompson.

Who said anything about coaches? Honestly WTF does that have to do with anything? Georgetown was a team that made the championship game 3 out of 4 years. They were the closest thing to a dynasty since UCLA. That was probably the most iconic college hoops team in the 80's. Nova beat that team with Patrick Ewing as a senior and that year might have been the single most dominant year any conference has ever had. Nova shot 70% from the floor against perhaps the best defensive team in a long time. Every time the two teams meet it is mentioned. Maybe that, instead of who the coaches were, is the reason why it is remembered as one of the greatest tourney games of all time.

And in terms of the BE being "the end all, be all" who said that? The BE though has been the best college hoops league over the past 30 years. Do you disagree? 5 different programs have won NC's during that time (G'twn, Nova, Syr, Uconn & L'ville). It should have been 6 if SHU had not been robbed. So forgive me if I am proud of being a part of that excellence. Do you not think that Marq bettered its situation when it came over? Would the program be better or worse today had it just stayed in C-USA? Being in the best conference for the past 30 years is a factor whether or not you care to admit it.

Lastly how is having more tourney success overall an argument that is BE centric? Did you just ignore that one? And head to head all-time and in conference means nothing too right? Whatever Boxer. If your argument is that Marq made the E8 last year than you win...

I'm on my phone so for now I'm only going to respond to the first part. When you called into question MU's championship as if it was somehow less than yours because yours featured Nova vs GTown and degraded our by saying nobody would even know who we beat... like it or not beating UNC has always been and will always be a bigger feat than beating Georgetown. I'm not quite sure why you are so determined to knock MU down when I never said anything negative about Nova whatsoever. I don't know why you're bragging about the stats and players from that game either. But I guess whatever tickles your pickle. It sounds like you're getting upset perhaps take a breather. I'll respond to the rest of the post when I'm back from the bars.

I didn't call into question anything about Marq's title not being a great feat or a great win against a great program. I'm just saying that the Nova-Gtwn final of '85 is one of the most memorable games in the history of the tourney. I don't recall anyone recalling what a great final the '77 game was. Patrick Ewing was the most iconic college player of the 80's, and the college hoops scene was dominated by" Hoya paranoia", which only fueled the story line. I think it was the first time ever (and since) that 3 teams from the same conference made the FF, so there was that story line adding to it all. Now you want the argument to be about which program is better, UNC or Gtwn? What does that have to do with anything?

Also how am I "knocking down MU?" Give me one example in which I made a disparaging or negative comment about MU? Talk about sensitive. I don't think MU matches Nova in terms of national recognition and program success. I gave you many data points to support my statement. You disagree. In fact many of them you seem to just ignore. How is that, in any way, "knocking" MU? Jeez...

[MUBoxer]

[aughnanure]

Who said anything about coaches? Honestly WTF does that have to do with anything? Georgetown was a team that made the championship game 3 out of 4 years. They were the closest thing to a dynasty since UCLA. That was probably the most iconic college hoops team in the 80's. Nova beat that team with Patrick Ewing as a senior and that year might have been the single most dominant year any conference has ever had. Nova shot 70% from the floor against perhaps the best defensive team in a long time. Every time the two teams meet it is mentioned. Maybe that, instead of who the coaches were, is the reason why it is remembered as one of the greatest tourney games of all time.

And in terms of the BE being "the end all, be all" who said that? The BE though has been the best college hoops league over the past 30 years. Do you disagree? 5 different programs have won NC's during that time (G'twn, Nova, Syr, Uconn & L'ville). It should have been 6 if SHU had not been robbed. So forgive me if I am proud of being a part of that excellence. Do you not think that Marq bettered its situation when it came over? Would the program be better or worse today had it just stayed in C-USA? Being in the best conference for the past 30 years is a factor whether or not you care to admit it.

Lastly how is having more tourney success overall an argument that is BE centric? Did you just ignore that one? And head to head all-time and in conference means nothing too right? Whatever Boxer. If your argument is that Marq made the E8 last year than you win...

I'm on my phone so for now I'm only going to respond to the first part. When you called into question MU's championship as if it was somehow less than yours because yours featured Nova vs GTown and degraded our by saying nobody would even know who we beat... like it or not beating UNC has always been and will always be a bigger feat than beating Georgetown. I'm not quite sure why you are so determined to knock MU down when I never said anything negative about Nova whatsoever. I don't know why you're bragging about the stats and players from that game either. But I guess whatever tickles your pickle. It sounds like you're getting upset perhaps take a breather. I'll respond to the rest of the post when I'm back from the bars.

I didn't call into question anything about Marq's title not being a great feat or a great win against a great program. I'm just saying that the Nova-Gtwn final of '85 is one of the most memorable games in the history of the tourney. I don't recall anyone recalling what a great final the '77 game was. Patrick Ewing was the most iconic college player of the 80's, and the college hoops scene was dominated by" Hoya paranoia", which only fueled the story line. I think it was the first time ever (and since) that 3 teams from the same conference made the FF, so there was that story line adding to it all. Now you want the argument to be about which program is better, UNC or Gtwn? What does that have to do with anything?

Also how am I "knocking down MU?" Give me one example in which I made a disparaging or negative comment about MU? Talk about sensitive. I don't think MU matches Nova in terms of national recognition and program success. I gave you many data points to support my statement. You disagree. In fact many of them you seem to just ignore. How is that, in any way, "knocking" MU? Jeez...

You can totally be proud, but it honestly just feels like you are (and other original BE posters sometimes) putting other teams' accomplishments below those made by teams not in the original Big East. I feel like there's been a little bit of a bubble you guys have been living in for a while and it feels like a slight at times. No biggie, I think we're all just taking things a bit more personally than we should.

On the 1977 thing, Marquette gets screwed cause it was the early 80s when CBS took over the NCAA Tournament...but they didn't get the rights to the NBC broadcasts from before. So that's why you really never see scenes from it during promos, or see clips of it during the tournament any more. They simply don't have the rights to the broadcast (that and ESPN likes to start the "modern era" for nearly all sports conveniently around the time when they launched).