Marquette VS Ohio State

[aughnanure]

First off, to be clear, Villanova absolutely has the national cred and I called the guy out who stupidly said it was only Marq and GU (seriously, Stever20 lives in a world where only the most recent things matters).

Secondly, Marquette has NOT MISSED THE TOURNEY since joining the Big East. So that is wrong, but no I was not claiming a better "resume," just a streak (since we were doing this individual points argument format earlier haha).

My problem is that you (and many fans like) cloud every conclusion with this "well we played in the Big East longer" type of subjective thinking and poetic waxing that can't be proven or negated. Who said all the memories are wiped away? But you literally just said "Villanova has been in the Big East longer." Are you supposed to get extra points for that? Is that really your argument for Nova having a better national brand? This was started because you claimed Nova is above MU and MUBoxer rightfully questioned that.

And yes we won the Big East (and have won more Big East games than any team the past 2 years). You can think winning 3 meaningless games before the NCAA tournament matters more than regular season accomplishments, but you'd be wrong in every way the NCAA tournament is decided. Seeds really do not change much. I get you guys love it and all, but the regular season matters more in college basketball. Don't expect us to have the same affinity for something we haven't been a part of for 30 years.

Lastly, I like F bombs, especially when you claim that no one remembers who Marquette beat to win the Nat'l Champ when it was only the 3rd all-time winningest program.

Playing off-Broadway isn't the same as doing it on Broadway. If the last Marquette FF team had made that run from the BE Wade would have been as big a star as Melo in college. Imagine if he would have played to games against Melo in-conference that year. Wade likely would have been picked a few spots higher and Marq's brand would be even higher today. The platform you win on does matter and no program in this conference has played on a higher platform than the BE.

Wade was a 2 star recruit who didn't qualify his first year that no one knew about. It would not have been like Wiggins vs Parker because there would not have been hype. And even if it did, it would have been late in the year.

He got picked #5 btw, and people still had their doubts about him and his size, which is why James, Bosh, Melo and Darko all went in front. Hell everyone thought Riley was crazy for picking him that high.

[aughnanure]

Sorry Augh... got my years and tourney years mixed up... Thought that the 2005 tourney was the first year that Marq was in the league (and they missed it that year) but actually they started in tourney year 2006. My bad.

Its actually crazy, I'm worried we're due for a down year. No one thought we would have done as well as we did, especially because we missed 2004 and 2005 tourneys due to injuries and having Wade leave early. Hell that year weren't you and UConn ranked in the Top 5 like all year?

[GumbyDamnit!]

Sorry Augh... got my years and tourney years mixed up... Thought that the 2005 tourney was the first year that Marq was in the league (and they missed it that year) but actually they started in tourney year 2006. My bad.

Its actually crazy, I'm worried we're due for a down year. No one thought we would have done as well as we did, especially because we missed 2004 and 2005 tourneys due to injuries and having Wade leave early. Hell that year weren't you and UConn ranked in the Top 5 like all year?

Yes, one of my best memories of that year is Nova with their 4 guard lineup beating UCONN (who was #1 at the time) with their huge frontline. That was one of the best Nova teams of all time but it is a real shame that, who many believed was the best player on that team, Curtis Sumpter, blew out his knee in a game vs. Florida in the tourney the year before and reinjured it again early that year. He was a stud and one of the only guys over 6'4" on that team who could have helped. Florida got their revenge in the E8 on their way to their 1st of 2 straight NC's. That was the year Uconn lost to George Mason in the E8 as well.

I'll put this debate to rest but the one point that I think Hall made that is a good one is that conference affiliation absolutely contributes to overall brand recognition and value. I think if you ask Creighton or Xavier fans they'll agree that their program's value has jumped since it became part of the nBE. And they absolutely owe a nod of the cap in gratitude for teams like Marq, Nova, SHU, etc. for putting such a good product out on the floor for so many years that led to being approached by Fox and getting all of this $ and exposure on national TV. I think what may frustrate the "new guard" BE fans is that there is almost a sense of "superiority" from fans that have been in the league longer. But to be honest it is because the BE is in fact a better league than the one that each school who has joined came from. I also think that this mentality is acquired from years of intense battles in an absolute grind of a league. It may also be a reflection of the East Coast mentality that many of the old guard schools sit in. My brothers and I used to kick the crap out of each other as kids but God help anyone else who tried to do that. And I don't think its wrong to have levels of loyalty. Afterall I imagine that for a couple of years I will probably root for Marq to beat the 3 new schools when they play. There is feeling (right or wrong) that the new schools need to earn their stripes a bit. Marq has done it over the past 8 years. I would expect the other 3 will do the same in due time. Peace.

[TheHall]

Playing off-Broadway isn't the same as doing it on Broadway. If the last Marquette FF team had made that run from the BE Wade would have been as big a star as Melo in college. Imagine if he would have played to games against Melo in-conference that year. Wade likely would have been picked a few spots higher and Marq's brand would be even higher today. The platform you win on does matter and no program in this conference has played on a higher platform than the BE.

Wade was a 2 star recruit who didn't qualify his first year that no one knew about. It would not have been like Wiggins vs Parker because there would not have been hype. And even if it did, it would have been late in the year.

He got picked #5 btw, and people still had their doubts about him and his size, which is why James, Bosh, Melo and Darko all went in front. Hell everyone thought Riley was crazy for picking him that high.

The BE has thrived in turning underrated recruits into NBA'ers, moreso than McD AA's like Melo. Many of the doubts about Wade were really a result of not seeing him play against better competition for so many games. That's why the triple-double against UK was a huge deal. If he was in the BE those years those questions would have been answered much earlier and his legend would have been larger IMO.

[aughnanure]

Playing off-Broadway isn't the same as doing it on Broadway. If the last Marquette FF team had made that run from the BE Wade would have been as big a star as Melo in college. Imagine if he would have played to games against Melo in-conference that year. Wade likely would have been picked a few spots higher and Marq's brand would be even higher today. The platform you win on does matter and no program in this conference has played on a higher platform than the BE.

Wade was a 2 star recruit who didn't qualify his first year that no one knew about. It would not have been like Wiggins vs Parker because there would not have been hype. And even if it did, it would have been late in the year.

He got picked #5 btw, and people still had their doubts about him and his size, which is why James, Bosh, Melo and Darko all went in front. Hell everyone thought Riley was crazy for picking him that high.

The BE has thrived in turning underrated recruits into NBA'ers, moreso than McD AA's like Melo. Many of the doubts about Wade were really a result of not seeing him play against better competition for so many games. That's why the triple-double against UK was a huge deal. If he was in the BE those years those questions would have been answered much earlier and his legend would have been larger IMO.

Hard to rewrite history like that, I'd rather not change anything and have the FF. But it's not like the CUSA was bad at all then - Cincinnati under Huggins, Louisville w/ Pitino, Memphis, etc along with DePaul, SLU, and us.

[stever20]

Maybe it's being in the Midwest/Big 10 Country but I would MUCH rather play Wisconsin then Arkansas from an exposure/recognition/RPI standpoint. It isn't even remotely close.

It's being in the Midwest/Big 10. Before 2000, Wisconsin had done nothing in college basketball. They were like an Iowa, or even Nebraska.

Arkansas has a very big brand name in the south and around Texas/Missouri/Kansas/Oklahoma. My larger point isn't about who has the program running better at this very moment but that if Arkansas can get going they will surpass Wisconsin in every way as a national brand. It's like saying Wisconsin is a bigger brand than Georgetown when they were going through a lull in the late 90s, early 2000s.

And lastly, just as supportive Big East fans, please don't buy into (or promote) the idea that Wiscy is some household name for basketball. Thanks!

Arkansas is nothing right now. nothing. To say they're on the same level as Wisconsin is laughable at best. Wisconsin is one of the big boys. You might not like it but oh well. Almost all of us have one that we have to worry about now.

And please, Georgetown is 1000000 times more than Arkansas EVER was. That's a flipping joke.

[aughnanure]

Maybe it's being in the Midwest/Big 10 Country but I would MUCH rather play Wisconsin then Arkansas from an exposure/recognition/RPI standpoint. It isn't even remotely close.

It's being in the Midwest/Big 10. Before 2000, Wisconsin had done nothing in college basketball. They were like an Iowa, or even Nebraska.

Arkansas has a very big brand name in the south and around Texas/Missouri/Kansas/Oklahoma. My larger point isn't about who has the program running better at this very moment but that if Arkansas can get going they will surpass Wisconsin in every way as a national brand. It's like saying Wisconsin is a bigger brand than Georgetown when they were going through a lull in the late 90s, early 2000s.

And lastly, just as supportive Big East fans, please don't buy into (or promote) the idea that Wiscy is some household name for basketball. Thanks!

Arkansas is nothing right now. nothing. To say they're on the same level as Wisconsin is laughable at best. Wisconsin is one of the big boys. You might not like it but oh well. Almost all of us have one that we have to worry about now.

And please, Georgetown is 1000000 times more than Arkansas EVER was. That's a flipping joke.

Whatever, Wisconsin is NOT a big boy and all your opinions are solely based on this 5 year 'what have you done for me lately' memory you have of college basketball.

[stever20]

are you serious?

Wisconsin first off won a title back in 1942. That ain't 5 years ago.

The current run is oh about 20 years old now 1994 they got a bid and then again in 97. Now since 99 they've made the tourney every year. That's 15 years.

Arkansas has been to the tourney 3 times in the last 13 years. At some point, that flipping matters. No one outside of well just about you would view playing Arkansas as being remotely close to playing Wisconsin.

[TheHall]

https://twitter.com/MarquetteU/status/401408511269031937

[aughnanure]

are you serious?

Wisconsin first off won a title back in 1942. That ain't 5 years ago.

The current run is oh about 20 years old now 1994 they got a bid and then again in 97. Now since 99 they've made the tourney every year. That's 15 years.

Arkansas has been to the tourney 3 times in the last 13 years. At some point, that flipping matters. No one outside of well just about you would view playing Arkansas as being remotely close to playing Wisconsin.

And they did what from 1942 to 2000? A bunch of randos got national championships in the 30s and 40s, that does not make them a power. They literally didn't do anything until Bennett---literally NO tourney appearance between 1947-1994! And outside of 2000, they have one Elite 8 since. And if you look, since the 2000 run, they have never beaten a lower seeded team than them in the tourney. They're a solid program (more than solid) that will have an entertaining and successful regular season but flame out in the tourney. That is not a Big Boy.

The fallout of Nolan Richardson at the end of the 2000s really hurt Arkansas for a while, but if Mike Anderson can make the type of strides he was making in Mizzou that program will quickly match and surpass the national "brand" of Wisconsin. That's all. There's more potential at Arkansas, and a lot more money, so I'm not going to bury a program as "nothing" simply because of right now. Hell, we all know our programs have gone through similar droughts.