Big East vs. Power Leagues Discussion

[GumbyDamnit!]

UNC, Duke, L'ville and Syracuse are all better programs than any the BE has to offer. That's just a fact. Not sure how you can conjecture 2-3 years from now and say a Butler or a Creighton (post GM) will be better than Syracuse. That is just silly. And for all of our excitement about our 2014 recruiting class keep in mind that schools like L'ville, UNC, Duke and Syr are usually bringing in top 10 classes EVERY year, not just one. So until we start getting multiple different teams in the FF consistently, we can't puff out our chests about anything. Now if you want to say that some of these HOF coaches may retire and the program suffer, that is a possibility. But the top 4 in the ACC next year are probably 4 of the top 10 programs of the last 20 years without question and I don't think we could argue even 1 top 10 program. I like the enthusiasm Hall but I have to disagree.

[TheHall]

UNC, Duke, L'ville and Syracuse are all better programs than any the BE has to offer. That's just a fact. Not sure how you can conjecture 2-3 years from now and say a Butler or a Creighton (post GM) will be better than Syracuse. That is just silly. And for all of our excitement about our 2014 recruiting class keep in mind that schools like L'ville, UNC, Duke and Syr are usually bringing in top 10 classes EVERY year, not just one. So until we start getting multiple different teams in the FF consistently, we can't puff out our chests about anything. Now if you want to say that some of these HOF coaches may retire and the program suffer, that is a possibility. But the top 4 in the ACC next year are probably 4 of the top 10 programs of the last 20 years without question and I don't think we could argue even 1 top 10 program. I like the enthusiasm Hall but I have to disagree.

Silly, Butler's been a more successful program than cuse over the last 5 years already. It's like you're just repeating all the spin out of ESPN/ACCland. I don't just have enthusiasm, it's BE history too. You should know that the OG BE faced the same type of legit doubts & criticism, but the doubters didn't turn out to be right then & I don't think they will be this time either.

[stever20]

UNC, Duke, L'ville and Syracuse are all better programs than any the BE has to offer. That's just a fact. Not sure how you can conjecture 2-3 years from now and say a Butler or a Creighton (post GM) will be better than Syracuse. That is just silly. And for all of our excitement about our 2014 recruiting class keep in mind that schools like L'ville, UNC, Duke and Syr are usually bringing in top 10 classes EVERY year, not just one. So until we start getting multiple different teams in the FF consistently, we can't puff out our chests about anything. Now if you want to say that some of these HOF coaches may retire and the program suffer, that is a possibility. But the top 4 in the ACC next year are probably 4 of the top 10 programs of the last 20 years without question and I don't think we could argue even 1 top 10 program. I like the enthusiasm Hall but I have to disagree.

Silly, Butler's been a more successful program than cuse over the last 5 years already. It's like you're just repeating all the spin out of ESPN/ACCland. I don't just have enthusiasm, it's BE history too. You should know that the OG BE faced the same type of legit doubts & criticism, but the doubters didn't turn out to be right then & I don't think they will be this time either.

Syracuse is the 2nd best of the programs that went ACC. 1st best program was/is Louisville who just won a national championship and could easily do so again this year.

The thing about the doubters is the sports world is a lot different in 2013 than it was in 1979. A lot of that great BE history is gone. Syracuse, UConn both have been there forever. Pitt and Notre Dame have been in the league for a long time as well. While Louisville not been there for long- they were still a great program. Hell, Cincy made tourney last 3 years. It's not that we lost just the ACC schools, but also the ones that went to the AAC.

[MUBoxer]

So wait we're talking about how the ACC gets a downgrade because a bunch of the HoF coaches might retire soon, and saying that we're better because our basement MIGHT get better and so we shouldn't look at recent history, but then Butler gets mentioned and it's ok to not peg them as falling without their coach? And it's ok to look at Butler's history but not the history of the crappy teams?

Here's the way I see it (and I won't do tournament appearances this time because that seemed to confuse people): Just since 2000 the current BE has been blown out of the water by the ACC if you want to see how bad we compare look here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... _web#gid=0

Regarding future possible success post coaching transitions please try to make an argument that any one of our coaches would turn down Duke or UNC, maybe they might turn down Cuse (overrated blue blood equivalent in my opinion) but there's not a chance that any of our coaches would turn down a shot at those jobs. So it doesn't matter that their coaches may retire soon because unlike our great programs throughout time (Nova, GT, MU) where we have coaching changes and it's always a gamble those blue bloods don't have to take a gamble on a coach because the best coaches come to them.

[redmen9194]

Getting back to the original purpose of this thread, the X represents against Tennessee with Raft in the house.

vs. ACC: 1-0
vs. SEC: 1-0
vs. Big Ten: 0-1
vs. PAC-12: 0-1
vs. Big XII: 0-0
vs. AAC: 0-0

Overall: 2-2

[GumbyDamnit!]

UNC, Duke, L'ville and Syracuse are all better programs than any the BE has to offer. That's just a fact. Not sure how you can conjecture 2-3 years from now and say a Butler or a Creighton (post GM) will be better than Syracuse. That is just silly. And for all of our excitement about our 2014 recruiting class keep in mind that schools like L'ville, UNC, Duke and Syr are usually bringing in top 10 classes EVERY year, not just one. So until we start getting multiple different teams in the FF consistently, we can't puff out our chests about anything. Now if you want to say that some of these HOF coaches may retire and the program suffer, that is a possibility. But the top 4 in the ACC next year are probably 4 of the top 10 programs of the last 20 years without question and I don't think we could argue even 1 top 10 program. I like the enthusiasm Hall but I have to disagree.

Silly, Butler's been a more successful program than cuse over the last 5 years already. It's like you're just repeating all the spin out of ESPN/ACCland. I don't just have enthusiasm, it's BE history too. You should know that the OG BE faced the same type of legit doubts & criticism, but the doubters didn't turn out to be right then & I don't think they will be this time either.

Hall you are all over the place... First you say that the 3 new BE schools will be better in a few years than the ones we lost based on what? Hope? Conjecture? Then you state that Butler is a better program than Syracuse and use just 5 years as your sample size. If you want to use recent success, Syracuse was in the FF last year. If you want to ask who has won a recent NC then Syracuse again won one of those. Would you consider Wich state a better program than Marq or Xavier since they made the FF last year? Of course not. You have to look at the body of work of a program over an extended period of time. Butler's 2 tourney runs were phenomenal but to say that they are a superior program to Syracuse is a huge stretch. I would bet the Butler fans themselves would agree with me.

[xu1990]

Tonight game was not a thing of beauty. That being said if X is the 7th best team in the Big East, the Big East is just fine

[billyjack]

My initial point on Page 13 wasn't saying that the Duke-UNC-Syracuse-Louisville foursome isn't amazing... I didn't even go there. I just mentioned how I thought the other 10 ACC schools were overrated and have accomplished basically squat in recent years-- all while getting the benefit of the doubt in polls and all. I mean, after a few days, against my better judgment, I started to actually think BC was something special and was worthy of some Top-25 votes... instead, they've become the latest team to benefit from the overhyped lower tier of the ACC. In the coming weeks, look for Virginia Tech to get some un-deserved Top 25 votes.

[redmen9194]

Tonight game was not a thing of beauty. That being said if X is the 7th best team in the Big East, the Big East is just fine

It was a nice win. Doesn't have to be beautiful. Tennessee is no SEC push over. Keeps up the Big East dominance over the SEC over the last three years.

[TheHall]

Silly, Butler's been a more successful program than cuse over the last 5 years already. It's like you're just repeating all the spin out of ESPN/ACCland. I don't just have enthusiasm, it's BE history too. You should know that the OG BE faced the same type of legit doubts & criticism, but the doubters didn't turn out to be right then & I don't think they will be this time either.

Hall you are all over the place... First you say that the 3 new BE schools will be better in a few years than the ones we lost based on what? Hope? Conjecture? Then you state that Butler is a better program than Syracuse and use just 5 years as your sample size. If you want to use recent success, Syracuse was in the FF last year. If you want to ask who has won a recent NC then Syracuse again won one of those. Would you consider Wich state a better program than Marq or Xavier since they made the FF last year? Of course not. You have to look at the body of work of a program over an extended period of time. Butler's 2 tourney runs were phenomenal but to say that they are a superior program to Syracuse is a huge stretch. I would bet the Butler fans themselves would agree with me.

I didn't mean the 3 would become the elite teams in the BE, who cares if they are as long as 2-3 teams play at elite status over the next few years, meaning top 10 rankings & FF's. Don't make it seem like Cuse & UofL dominated the C7 teams over the last few years. My main point was how can you be so definitive to say it's silly that over the next few years some mix of BE teams can't outperform Duke, UNC, UofL or Cuse. Maybe you don't have enough hope or confidence in Jay, whatever, but I'm done defending the potential of the BE to BE fans on a BE forum, I guess we'll just have to see how it plays out. Cheers!