Sat 11/9 BE Game Thread (3 games)

[stever20]

I get the feeling like some coaches are being stubborn with things, not wanting to change things at all with defense- thinking the refs are going to back off(if anything trying to have games like tonights Seton Hall/Niagara game). I mean even last year- in that first half there would have been a good 13-15 fouls on both schools. Some of the fouls were just stupid.

[stever20]

did a bit of looking on the guys who reffed the Seton Hall Game...

Wally Rutecki- last year his games- average of 37.5 fouls per game. t63 in the country. in conference games last year- 38 fouls per game.
Douglas Grant- 37.1 fouls per game last year- t75 in the country. Fairly new ref- only called 16 games last season- and 65 in his career. 10 t's last year. So, not the most experienced ref.
Dennis Allocco- 35.4 fouls per game last year. Also a fairly inexperienced ref- only 31 games last year- and 109 in his career.

So these guys were already guys who called a lot of fouls even before these new rules. And 2 fairly inexperienced refs quite frankly one normally did NEC and CAA games(Allocco), and Grant did normally NEC/AEC games.

The Butler refs by the way- 3 longtime vets- who even last year didn't call as many fouls. Corbett 35.4, Clougherty 34.8, and Ayers 31.9. Ayers from 1997-2008(the site I'm on weird has either last years stats or 1997-2008)- called the 3rd fewest fouls amongst all refs. (funny fact, the #1 guy is a guy named Gene Steratore, yes, the NFL referee).

[bman95]

Maybe the older refs just will refuse to make a great change to the way they call the games. You just hope that the calls are equal to both sides and called the same throughout the game. It will take time but the players anf refs will adapt.

[Bluejay]

I didn't see the Butler game to compare, but the Seton Hall game was deserving of most of the fouls. Seton Hall's high ball screen offense sets itself up for a lot of fouls. What made this game most frustrating was that neither team was willing to adjust their defense to the way the game was being called. I had to turn the game off because it was so boring - and I blame the coaches for that, not the refs. It was apparent early that certain things were going to be a call every time but nobody adjusted at all.

I know we're new to the conference and I haven't seen a lot of traditional BE teams play yet, but if they all run their offenses like Seton Hall's, you guys are going to be blown away when you see Creighton's style because it is so dramatically different. I can't decide if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

[TheHall]

I didn't see the Butler game to compare, but the Seton Hall game was deserving of most of the fouls. Seton Hall's high ball screen offense sets itself up for a lot of fouls. What made this game most frustrating was that neither team was willing to adjust their defense to the way the game was being called. I had to turn the game off because it was so boring - and I blame the coaches for that, not the refs. It was apparent early that certain things were going to be a call every time but nobody adjusted at all.

I know we're new to the conference and I haven't seen a lot of traditional BE teams play yet, but if they all run their offenses like Seton Hall's, you guys are going to be blown away when you see Creighton's style because it is so dramatically different. I can't decide if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

Enough schools are seeing escalated foul calls so to make it seem like dealing with it is as simple as a half-time adjust for getting more touches for your bigs seems unrealistic. This transition is not only about defenders figuring the new rule out for their advantage, but also on offensive. When I look at the numbers from the SHU game i see that even though there were 102 fouls, two guys (Gibbs & Mason) shot 43 of them, 4 guys shot 59. My point is a few guys, not every player, had the game and the awareness to make the rules work for them on the offensive side of the ball on both teams.

As far as SHU's fouling, it was the bigs not the guards that struggled with fouling. Of the five guards only the freshman Sina was in foul trouble with 4. Gibbs, Mayaan & Karlis all finished with only one each. I agree the learning curve needs to speed up quickly but most of cbb is struggling through a similar transition not just SHU.

[HoosierPal]

After a shaky first half, the 'Dawgs got it together v Lamar. Questions raised, can Marshall hit a double double routinely? How long before Dunham and Brown get their Mo Jo consistently going behind the line. Amazing crowd, even for a home opener. Very few people can tell you which state Lamar University is in, or what conference they play in, yet the Barn was nearly full. True, ex-Hoosier Pat Knight was there, but how many folks showed up to see the opponents coach? Princeton next weekend will be a much better test.

The "new rules" had no impact on the game. I laugh at the 'new rule' on hand checking. That has been in the rule books forever, but the refs never called it. When I played HS hoops in hoosierland, you guarded with your feet, not your hands. Just enforce the rules, don' t put new ones in.

[walijones]

Agree with the poster that blamed the coaches for not hammering home the point that the rules have changed and that hand to hand combat is no longer permissible. I watched 3 other games over the weekend and it was obvious in those games that the defenders made a concerted effort to play defense not by clutching and grabbing, but by moving their feet. In contrast, the Seton Hall/Niagra players seemed oblivious to the new reality.

It will be interesting to see how teams like Louisville will fare under these restrictions. I hope the NCAA doesn't allow coaches like Ricky P to intimidate the refs, forcing them to revert to the old system.

[shupat08]

Gotta love everyone dogging Seton Hall... Reality check guys... Last year 11 teams shot over 50 Free Throws in a game ALL YEAR... So far this year? 9 teams have shot over 50 Free Throws in a game.

Not just SHU and Willard refusing to adjust.

Get used to this.

[shupirate98]

Gotta love everyone dogging Seton Hall... Reality check guys... Last year 11 teams shot over 50 Free Throws in a game ALL YEAR... So far this year? 9 teams have shot over 50 Free Throws in a game.

Not just SHU and Willard refusing to adjust.

Get used to this.

It's all about what refs you get. The big teams and big games will get the experienced refs. The Duke-Kansas game on Tuesday will look nothing like what we saw last night and clowns like Bilas will say "see, the good teams can adjust and play defense, blah blah blah." Meanwhile that night in some game nobody's paying attention to there will be an officiating crew led by a lousy official like Wally Rutecki and we'll see another Seton Hall-Niagara fiasco. God help us all if our league games are going to have the likes of the truly hideous Rutecki as lead officials.

[billyjack]

I totally enjoyed the 3 games yesterday. I taped them and watched them late, skipping through commercials and free throws.

Thought DePaul played way more under control than in past years. I saw no running, spin-around off-balance 15-footers like they were prone to do last year. Hamilton IV looked great underneath, and is a great finisher under the basket. Even though Grambling is weak, DePaul displayed some good habits and fundamentals. DePaul played in their campus gym (it's their only scheduled game on campus)... maybe they could blow out the walls behind each basket and add more seating. What's on the other side of the walls?

Seton Hall looked to have so much more depth and confidence than last year. Edwin will be great, Gibbs is a perfect addition, and Auda was a steady presence down low. The Hall missed some bunnies underneath, but Auda in particular was a solid finisher. The fouls didn't bother me... then again, I could fast forward thru the delays.

The finale with Butler was my favorite game of the three yesterday. Hinkle looks fantastic on TV... the place is the Fenway Park of college hoops, and Indy is really the heart and soul of the sport. Butler is a fun team to watch... they make few mistakes, have great passing, and it was a pleasure to see them hit basically EVERY shot within 8 feet of the hoop-- nice soft runners and floaters, every lay-up, no bad misses all game...

So considering the fact that DePaul, The Hall, and Butler are generally considered to be our 8-9-10 teams this year, that tells me that our conference is STACKED. I realized the opponents weren't fantastic, but each of our BE brethren played great, confident, solid hoops. Tomorrow night I'll get my first look at Creighton on FS1... I'm thinking the Bluejays could be a Final Four team this year, so I can't wait to check them out...!

Go Big East...!!!

P.S. For anyone hoping to shrug off yesterday's games because of the competition, look at what happened to Virginia Tech and Miami of Florida. Meanwhile, each of our games were in the bag with 10 minutes to play. Also, Niagara is actually a solid team.