Both PC Freshmen Suspended

[GumbyDamnit!]

I think a case in point for a frosh coming in and playing right away is actually Dunn last year. 7 points, 6 rebounds, and 13 assists in his 1st game ever. 5 points 5 rebounds, 6 assists 2nd game. So 6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 9.5 apg in his first 2 games. I'd definitely call that being a factor right out of the box.

Stever, Dunn was a McD's AA, all freshman aren't top 10. For top 10-15 players yes, that's how Kentucky won, but the next year even with top 20 talent at all positions they didn't make the tourney. And like I said before SJU has had the last 2 ROY & they both played well. But this is the first year under Lavs where there are more upperclassmen than underclassmen & that's why SJU is picked to do well.

I don't believe McNamara was a Top 25 player; Napier and Lamb were both outside of the Top 100. Ryan Arch was #46.

[stever20]

I think a case in point for a frosh coming in and playing right away is actually Dunn last year. 7 points, 6 rebounds, and 13 assists in his 1st game ever. 5 points 5 rebounds, 6 assists 2nd game. So 6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 9.5 apg in his first 2 games. I'd definitely call that being a factor right out of the box.

Stever, Dunn was a McD's AA, all freshman aren't top 10. For top 10-15 players yes, that's how Kentucky won, but the next year even with top 20 talent at all positions they didn't make the tourney. And like I said before SJU has had the last 2 ROY & they both played well. But this is the first year under Lavs where there are more upperclassmen than underclassmen & that's why SJU is picked to do well.

Dunn wasn't top 10- looked at ESPN and he was like 23rd.

Like I said about Kentucky, if Noel isn't hurt they are tourney bound. They didn't win away from home the rest of the season after his injury- went 0-6. That matters. Not because they were relying on frosh.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Not trying to get your panties in a bunch Hall...just trying to have open, intelligent conversation about a league we both undoubtedly love. Forgive me if you think I went to far. I don't want to cause you or anyone else to feel uncomfortable by my posts. I will stop "poking the bear," as they say, but you need to be more careful with some of your definitive statements.

Seriously though, what sports fan would ever cut back on definitive statements, you don't. The problem is instead of coming back at me like a sports fan, you seem to come off as a str8 hater. Sport talk is never cool with a hater.

My point is that when you make your definitive statement and then don't seem to have any credible data to back it up, it makes it very easy for someone to vociferously debate the statement. Will try to not to be a "h8ter," but I can't say that I won't dispute a comment here and there. And I actually like SHU. My sister in law went there and I used to have a "lady friend" I visited when I'd come to visit Hoboken who was also an SHU grad. You guys def have produced some nice Pirate Wenches over the years.

[TheHall]

I think a case in point for a frosh coming in and playing right away is actually Dunn last year. 7 points, 6 rebounds, and 13 assists in his 1st game ever. 5 points 5 rebounds, 6 assists 2nd game. So 6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 9.5 apg in his first 2 games. I'd definitely call that being a factor right out of the box.

Stever, Dunn was a McD's AA, all freshman aren't top 10. For top 10-15 players yes, that's how Kentucky won, but the next year even with top 20 talent at all positions they didn't make the tourney. And like I said before SJU has had the last 2 ROY & they both played well. But this is the first year under Lavs where there are more upperclassmen than underclassmen & that's why SJU is picked to do well.

I don't believe McNamara was a Top 25 player; Napier and Lamb were both outside of the Top 100. Ryan Arch was #46.

If we are really having this debate, then we both know the 2 years you are referring to were two of the most epic runs in history and only 2 words are necessary to explain both....Melo & Kemba. I think it's not fair to compare pc to those squads. In general freshman don't contribute greatly especially early in the season, except against weak competition.

[TheHall]

I think a case in point for a frosh coming in and playing right away is actually Dunn last year. 7 points, 6 rebounds, and 13 assists in his 1st game ever. 5 points 5 rebounds, 6 assists 2nd game. So 6 ppg, 5.5 rpg, and 9.5 apg in his first 2 games. I'd definitely call that being a factor right out of the box.

Stever, Dunn was a McD's AA, all freshman aren't top 10. For top 10-15 players yes, that's how Kentucky won, but the next year even with top 20 talent at all positions they didn't make the tourney. And like I said before SJU has had the last 2 ROY & they both played well. But this is the first year under Lavs where there are more upperclassmen than underclassmen & that's why SJU is picked to do well.

Dunn wasn't top 10- looked at ESPN and he was like 23rd.

Like I said about Kentucky, if Noel isn't hurt they are tourney bound. They didn't win away from home the rest of the season after his injury- went 0-6. That matters. Not because they were relying on frosh.

OK Noel wasn't there, but how many McD's AA's should you need just to make the tourny. If you're saying it doesn't matter if they are only freshman hten they still should have made the tourny.

[TheHall]

Not trying to get your panties in a bunch Hall...just trying to have open, intelligent conversation about a league we both undoubtedly love. Forgive me if you think I went to far. I don't want to cause you or anyone else to feel uncomfortable by my posts. I will stop "poking the bear," as they say, but you need to be more careful with some of your definitive statements.

Seriously though, what sports fan would ever cut back on definitive statements, you don't. The problem is instead of coming back at me like a sports fan, you seem to come off as a str8 hater. Sport talk is never cool with a hater.

My point is that when you make your definitive statement and then don't seem to have any credible data to back it up, it makes it very easy for someone to vociferously debate the statement. Will try to not to be a "h8ter," but I can't say that I won't dispute a comment here and there. And I actually like SHU. My sister in law went there and I used to have a "lady friend" I visited when I'd come to visit Hoboken who was also an SHU grad. You guys def have produced some nice Pirate Wenches over the years.

No doubt...

[stever20]

I'd call Dunn's 2nd game last year- the 5 pt 5 reb 6 ast game against BC- as being a factor against pretty good competition.

I think what you are saying is the frosh wouldn't have gone 20 and 10 against BC. That's fine. But, I think it's ok to say they may have gone 9 and 5 each. That's being a factor. When you combine with Dunn maybe being out, thats a lot they're losing. Especially with how the fouls will be called..

[TheHall]

I'd call Dunn's 2nd game last year- the 5 pt 5 reb 6 ast game against BC- as being a factor against pretty good competition.

I think what you are saying is the frosh wouldn't have gone 20 and 10 against BC. That's fine. But, I think it's ok to say they may have gone 9 and 5 each. That's being a factor. When you combine with Dunn maybe being out, thats a lot they're losing. Especially with how the fouls will be called..

The hoyas lost Whit who mihgt have been a 17 & 7 player last year and they kept it moving. And when they lost him it wasn't clear yet how good Otto Porter was going to be. All I'm saying is good teams has to be able to handle a decent mix of injuries, suspensions, transfers and I think prov is a really good team.

[GumbyDamnit!]

If we are really having this debate, then we both know the 2 years you are referring to were two of the most epic runs in history and only 2 words are necessary to explain both....Melo & Kemba. I think it's not fair to compare pc to those squads. In general freshman don't contribute greatly especially early in the season, except against weak competition.

Hall there was absolutely NO way (zero, zilch, nada) that either Melo or Kemba win NC's without Gerry McNamara (I think he went 5 for 5 from three in the Championship game) or Napier & Lamb (who both were flat out studs their freshmen year). Uconn doesn't even make the tourney without those guys. No one is saying that the freshmen are the best players on the team. I certainly would be more concerned if I were a PC fan if Cotton was the one out. But the argument is not if Freshmen can step in and be the best on their team (especially if it is a tourney or bubble team to begin with), it is can freshmen step in and contribute considerably from Day 1.

[stever20]

I'd call Dunn's 2nd game last year- the 5 pt 5 reb 6 ast game against BC- as being a factor against pretty good competition.

I think what you are saying is the frosh wouldn't have gone 20 and 10 against BC. That's fine. But, I think it's ok to say they may have gone 9 and 5 each. That's being a factor. When you combine with Dunn maybe being out, thats a lot they're losing. Especially with how the fouls will be called..

The hoyas lost Whit who mihgt have been a 17 & 7 player last year and they kept it moving. And when they lost him it wasn't clear yet how good Otto Porter was going to be. All I'm saying is good teams has to be able to handle a decent mix of injuries, suspensions, transfers and I think prov is a really good team.

A lot different program in Georgetown than in Providence. When you've had a pattern of sucess, things just feed off of it. Same thing happens in reverse.