Both PC Freshmen Suspended

[TheHall]

We're talking about Freshman...Freshman in game 1 being critical...PC still has much talent on that roster...go get em Friars!

Freshman aren't the freshman that we think of 10-15 years ago even. More and more step on the floor day 1 and just take over.

Not true, Kentucky had the #1 recruiting class last season & didn't make the tourny...SJU had the #4 recruiting class 2 years ago and they've had the last two BE ROY but that didn't't translate in that many wins those seasons. Otto Porter was a shell of himself in his freshman year compared to last season, etc. Usually by junior year it's a different story but early on these guys are still growing and developing.

[stever20]

We're talking about Freshman...Freshman in game 1 being critical...PC still has much talent on that roster...go get em Friars!

Freshman aren't the freshman that we think of 10-15 years ago even. More and more step on the floor day 1 and just take over.

Not true, Kentucky had the #1 recruiting class last season & didn't make the tourny...SJU had the #4 recruiting class 2 years ago and they've had the last two BE ROY but that didn't't translate in that many wins those seasons. Otto Porter was a shell of himself in his freshman year compared to last season, etc. Usually by junior year it's a different story but early on these guys are still growing and developing.

Kentucky easily makes the tourney were it not for Noel getting injured. Easily. As is, they were likely the 1st team out. and 2 years ago, Kentucky relied on frosh to win the title game.

The thing about this suspension when you combined with the injury to Dunn and who knows about Cotton- it starts eating at the depth big time. Guys that you were counting on to play 5-10 minutes have to play 20-25 minutes, then someone else has to play that you weren't counting on to play at all. Also, that means they could have 3 fewer bodies with the new rules- that's 15 fouls....

[billyjack]

The PC vs BC game comes down to this:

BC has Hanlan at SG putting up a zillion threes.
BC also has Ryan Anderson at SF, a real talent.
BC's starting center had ankle surgery and is out until December, so BC is weak inside.
So BC has Hanlan (3's) and Anderson.

PC has Cotton for 3's.
PC has Batts, Desrosiers, Henton and Tyler Harris in the frontcourt, vs basically no one for BC (because of the injury).
On paper, I see a lot of pathways for Batts and Harris scoring 25 pts each.
On paper, I see Cotton matching whatever Hanlan does on offense.
On paper, I see a lot of pathways for PC to dominate the glass.

There are a lot of moving parts leading into this game, so we'd probably be best served just letting it play out and enjoying the action. In my opinion, the probable range of the score can be anywhere from BC winning by 5 to Providence winning by 15. There are more pathways to a Friar win, I think, because the Eagles MUST HAVE a good night from Hanlan; while the Friars can still win if Cotton isn't effective. I trust that Cooley knows this, so I would guess that Hanlan will be a top priority (this might involve co-captain Bancroft (who does yeoman's work and carries a lunch pail) following Hanlan everywhere; let Batts and Harris (and others) focus on Anderson).

[stever20]

The PC vs BC game comes down to this:

BC has Hanlan at SG putting up a zillion threes.
BC also has Ryan Anderson at SF, a real talent.
BC's starting center had ankle surgery and is out until December, so BC is weak inside.
So BC has Hanlan (3's) and Anderson.

PC has Cotton for 3's.
PC has Batts, Desrosiers, Henton and Tyler Harris in the frontcourt, vs basically no one for BC (because of the injury).
On paper, I see a lot of pathways for Batts and Harris scoring 25 pts each.
On paper, I see Cotton matching whatever Hanlan does on offense.
On paper, I see a lot of pathways for PC to dominate the glass.

There are a lot of moving parts leading into this game, so we'd probably be best served just letting it play out and enjoying the action. In my opinion, the probable range of the score can be anywhere from BC winning by 5 to Providence winning by 15. There are more pathways to a Friar win, I think, because the Eagles MUST HAVE a good night from Hanlan; while the Friars can still win if Cotton isn't effective. I trust that Cooley knows this, so I would guess that Hanlan will be a top priority.

If this was last year, I'd agree. I just worry with the new rules not having 3 of your top what 8-9 bodies would hurt. I think that's an x factor that we're going to have to take account of a lot this year. Depth this year will matter more than it has in a LONG time.

[TheHall]

Not true, Kentucky had the #1 recruiting class last season & didn't make the tourny...SJU had the #4 recruiting class 2 years ago and they've had the last two BE ROY but that didn't't translate in that many wins those seasons. Otto Porter was a shell of himself in his freshman year compared to last season, etc. Usually by junior year it's a different story but early on these guys are still growing and developing.

Kentucky easily makes the tourney were it not for Noel getting injured. Easily. As is, they were likely the 1st team out. and 2 years ago, Kentucky relied on frosh to win the title game.

The thing about this suspension when you combined with the injury to Dunn and who knows about Cotton- it starts eating at the depth big time. Guys that you were counting on to play 5-10 minutes have to play 20-25 minutes, then someone else has to play that you weren't counting on to play at all. Also, that means they could have 3 fewer bodies with the new rules- that's 15 fouls....

But they had the top class in the country Noel was just one of those top players. Anybody that thinks the only reason KU didn't make the tourny is because they had so many freshman they are not looking at the fact that experience matters. As for the year before they weren't as dependent on freshman, they had a core team that lost to Uconn in the Final 4 the year before. C'mon Stever it's not all doom and gloom if freshman aren't there in the beginning of the season, because they really aren't factors in the beginning of the season save for a few rare exceptions (Melo).

[stever20]

Not true, Kentucky had the #1 recruiting class last season & didn't make the tourny...SJU had the #4 recruiting class 2 years ago and they've had the last two BE ROY but that didn't't translate in that many wins those seasons. Otto Porter was a shell of himself in his freshman year compared to last season, etc. Usually by junior year it's a different story but early on these guys are still growing and developing.

Kentucky easily makes the tourney were it not for Noel getting injured. Easily. As is, they were likely the 1st team out. and 2 years ago, Kentucky relied on frosh to win the title game.

The thing about this suspension when you combined with the injury to Dunn and who knows about Cotton- it starts eating at the depth big time. Guys that you were counting on to play 5-10 minutes have to play 20-25 minutes, then someone else has to play that you weren't counting on to play at all. Also, that means they could have 3 fewer bodies with the new rules- that's 15 fouls....

But they had the top class in the country Noel was just one of those top players. Anybody that thinks the only reason KU didn't make the tourny is because they had so many freshman they are not looking at the fact that experience matters. As for the year before they weren't as dependent on freshman, they had a core team that lost to Uconn in the Final 4 the year before. C'mon Stever it's not all doom and gloom if freshman aren't there in the beginning of the season, because they really aren't factors in the beginning of the season save for a few rare exceptions (Melo).

The Noel injury though killed them. That's the reason they missed the tourney. 16-6 when he got hurt. They never won another game away from Rupp.

The problem that these 2 not beign there, plus Dunn- depth. with how fouls are goign to be called, not having 3/9 top players is huge...

[GumbyDamnit!]

Not true, Kentucky had the #1 recruiting class last season & didn't make the tourny...SJU had the #4 recruiting class 2 years ago and they've had the last two BE ROY but that didn't't translate in that many wins those seasons. Otto Porter was a shell of himself in his freshman year compared to last season, etc. Usually by junior year it's a different story but early on these guys are still growing and developing.

Kentucky easily makes the tourney were it not for Noel getting injured. Easily. As is, they were likely the 1st team out. and 2 years ago, Kentucky relied on frosh to win the title game.

The thing about this suspension when you combined with the injury to Dunn and who knows about Cotton- it starts eating at the depth big time. Guys that you were counting on to play 5-10 minutes have to play 20-25 minutes, then someone else has to play that you weren't counting on to play at all. Also, that means they could have 3 fewer bodies with the new rules- that's 15 fouls....

But they had the top class in the country Noel was just one of those top players. Anybody that thinks the only reason KU didn't make the tourny is because they had so many freshman they are not looking at the fact that experience matters. As for the year before they weren't as dependent on freshman, they had a core team that lost to Uconn in the Final 4 the year before. C'mon Stever it's not all doom and gloom if freshman aren't there in the beginning of the season, because they really aren't factors in the beginning of the season save for a few rare exceptions (Melo).

Stever, you are absolutely correct. In the BE alone Frosh have been huge--especially in the tournament at the guard spots. Whether it is Gerry McNamara & Melo at Syracuse, or Shabazz Napier & J. Lamb at Uconn or the guys at UK a couple years back, or even back to the Fab 5, every year Freshmen play a huge role in the success of teams--especially at tourney time. At Nova Scottie Reynolds put up 40 at Uconn as a Freshman and last year Ryan Arch (see other thread from Hall where he claimed Arch "wasn't ready") put up 32 V. SJU. The AAU circuit puts these kids into highly competitive play early and they come to school ready to contribute. So just casually dismissing that it's no big deal for a freshmen to miss a game simply because he is a freshmen could not be further from reality.

[stever20]

You are so right about AAU. I coach girls AAU ball and the situations these kids get put under you can't underestimate how competitive it is. Also, they play so many games, so they've seen almost every situation possible. Also, a lot of these kids are playing at the top high schools, which are getting more and more exposure and playing at decent size arena's with good attendance.

They may be able to make due w/o them, but it definitely makes the task much harder.

[TheHall]

Still quoting me...seriously what a loser u r damnit.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Still quoting me...seriously what a loser u r damnit.

If you want me to stop quoting you then stop making asinine comments about how Freshmen don't really contribute in college hoops. And you point to Ryan A as an example of that even though he stepped in on Day 1 (much like Stever is suggesting), led the team in minutes and assists and was 2nd on the team in scoring.