Top 144 Countdown

[Westbrook36]

Boy, you can tell the basketball season is just around the corner, things have started to heat up round here.

My intention was never to start a flame war, although I don't think you can even call this that, it's more like a heated civil debate. This board so far has been excellent(for the most part) about not crossing that line. I like Buzz and wouldn't argue with him being included in the same class with Jay & JT3, my disagreement was with the ahead of part of the deal. But then again it's no biggie, it's your opinion, I(and some others) happen to see it another way.

[Bill Marsh]

Boy, you can tell the basketball season is just around the corner, things have started to heat up round here.

My intention was never to start a flame war, although I don't think you can even call this that, it's more like a heated civil debate. This board so far has been excellent(for the most part) about not crossing that line. I like Buzz and wouldn't argue with him being included in the same class with Jay & JT3, my disagreement was with the ahead of part of the deal. But then again it's no biggie, it's your opinion, I(and some others) happen to see it another way.

Agree. No flame wars here. Very civil discussion. Seems to me like just a bunch of guys standing around the water cooler, kicking some ideas around and offering different points of view. It's the different POVs that actually make the conversation interesting to mind. I really appreciate posters who disagree with me because it forces me to think through my ideas better. Sometimes that gets me to change my mind or modify my position. Even when it doesn't, I feel I'm better off as a result of the exchange.

[Bill Marsh]

First by your logic then every year it's a waste of any expectations whatsoever because you never know what a new team will do. The fact is we have three seniors and two juniors all very well tested.

As far as its depth or not maybe you don't know who jajuan Johnson is but he was listed as a 5 star on certain sites and is expected by most analysts to make an immediate impact. Your opinion of JUCOs overall is fair and I agree however what you don't look at is Buzz's track record with JUCOs joe Fulce flop, Dwight buycks NBA, Jimmy Butler NBA, Jae Crowder BE POY and NBA, Darius Johnson Odom NBA. Maybe overall JUCOs don't translate well but if you can argue anything against that track record with JUCOs then your crazy or you're just going to say "well this guy isn't those guys" which is stupid because then once again it's meaningless to have any sort of expectations or speculations of anybody.

As far as experience goes Jamil Wilson is a red shirt senior at PF/SF Chris Otule is a double red shirt senior at C and davante Gardner is a Senior at C/PF Steve Taylor is a Sophomore at PF and Jameel McKay is a Junior at PF... Hence most expierienced front court in the league.

When a team returns all or almost all of its players, I think we do know what it will do. In fact, with the extra year of experience, it's likely that they will be even better than they were the year before.

In the case of this year's Marquette team, 3 players who were key to obtaining last year's results are gone - the leading scorer, the leading rebounder, and the assists & steals leader. We know that Marquette has recruited well and has very good replacements. As you also point out, the returning players are experienced. I do get your point kn that one and on Buzz's success with JUCOs. Bottom line is that the 3 departing players combined to play more than 40% of the minutes played by all Marquette players last year.

All I'm saying is that's a lot to replace. More than just about any of the other teams that will be challenging for the Big East title this year.

I actually thought you made a lot of great points in this post. I didn't respond earlier because I thought your points deserved to stand on their own merits without me contesting them since I had already had my say and didn't have anything new to add. Thanks for educating me on Marquette's success with JUCOs.

[Bill Marsh]

Georgetown came in today at a surprising #36. The losses of Porter and Whittington will really hurt in the view of College Sports Madness.

[Omahanian]

Creighton comes in tonight at #30.

[Bill Marsh]

Creighton comes in tonight at #30.

I was surprised to see that. I thought the Jays would rank higher.

College Sports Madness doesn't seem to be fans of the Big East. They've consistently ranked BE teams lower than expected and lower than USA Today has.

[walijones]

The success Buzz has had w/JUCOS is incredible. I've learned never to count them out, in large part because they always seem to plug holes with these guys. One thing that strikes me is that all of his JUCOS seem to be stand up guys.....team first guys. Maybe that's why Buzz has had success with them. A point to be made in defense of Jay Wright is that he can't recruit Junior College players, which has led to occasional underachieving seasons for Jay (and all of his predecessors). In the entire history of the Big East, I believe that Nova is the only school, with the possible exception of BC, that has not enrolled a JUCO or Prop 48.

[boyonthedock]

The success Buzz has had w/JUCOS is incredible. I've learned never to count them out, in large part because they always seem to plug holes with these guys. One thing that strikes me is that all of his JUCOS seem to be stand up guys.....team first guys. Maybe that's why Buzz has had success with them. A point to be made in defense of Jay Wright is that he can't recruit Junior College players, which has led to occasional underachieving seasons for Jay (and all of his predecessors). In the entire history of the Big East, I believe that Nova is the only school, with the possible exception of BC, that has not enrolled a JUCO or Prop 48.

You guys should get jucos. They're awesome.

[Dave]

The success Buzz has had w/JUCOS is incredible. I've learned never to count them out, in large part because they always seem to plug holes with these guys. One thing that strikes me is that all of his JUCOS seem to be stand up guys.....team first guys. Maybe that's why Buzz has had success with them. A point to be made in defense of Jay Wright is that he can't recruit Junior College players, which has led to occasional underachieving seasons for Jay (and all of his predecessors). In the entire history of the Big East, I believe that Nova is the only school, with the possible exception of BC, that has not enrolled a JUCO or Prop 48.

Is there a juco stigma? We take transfers and preps. Not sure a JUCO is necessarily any different academically.

[TheHall]

The success Buzz has had w/JUCOS is incredible. I've learned never to count them out, in large part because they always seem to plug holes with these guys. One thing that strikes me is that all of his JUCOS seem to be stand up guys.....team first guys. Maybe that's why Buzz has had success with them. A point to be made in defense of Jay Wright is that he can't recruit Junior College players, which has led to occasional underachieving seasons for Jay (and all of his predecessors). In the entire history of the Big East, I believe that Nova is the only school, with the possible exception of BC, that has not enrolled a JUCO or Prop 48.

Is there a juco stigma? We take transfers and preps. Not sure a JUCO is necessarily any different academically.

It's actually more like a racial stigma, right up there with classics like: prop 48 casualty, declaring "hardship", street agent eerrrr AAU coach...A "person" is not a Junior College (Juco), they are a JC transfer/player, serves no good purpose to dehumanize them.