Conference Realignment: What Next?

[adoraz]

At the end of the season people pay attention to things like:
*Number of bids per conference
*Number of teams in Sweet 16 per conference
*Number of teams in Final 4 per conference

People DON'T pay attention to:
*Number of bids per conference relative to conference size
*Number of teams in Sweet 16 per conference relative to conference size
*Number of teams in Final 4 per conference relative to conference size

Only a very small percent of people will say "the Big East got X teams in the Sweet 16 which is 1 less than Y conference, but Y conference has 4 more members so percentage wise they did the same". Only some hardcore Big East fans like those on this forum would even notice or care about things like that.

Fact is the Big East will be at a disadvantage going forward if we have fewer teams than all other Power conferences. 2/5 of the other Power conferences expanded just this past year alone.

As for expansion, I said prior to the season that the only team I'd really look at was Gonzaga. I still feel the same way. I don't think it's totally necessary after the Big East's solid year (a big improvement over last year), but it'd still be nice having another guaranteed Tournament lock each year. Right now we pretty much only have Villanova for that (but some teams like UConn and Creighton have come on strong).

End of the day if Fox and the Big East can make the numbers work then go for it.

[gtmoBlue]

Go Big...or stay home. If we're gonna expand...

Forget Boston...it's been over for decades.

Think Ottawa...Think International...Think Carleton University in Ottawa, Quebec, Canada!

Carleton is the preeminent basketball university in Canada. They are always upsetting US teams
on summer junkets up in Canuckland. The Ravens have won 16 Nat'l Championships, including this last
season. A great Eastern fit... A great engineering school as well.
https://goravens.ca/news/2022/04/nation ... r-sixteen/

Notre Dame. Sweeten the damn pot folks. Their football is still independent. They are not making
landslide money for Hoops and the rest - even in the ACC. Sweeten the damn pot Val / Stu.

[Hall2012]

It's an extreme example of course, but with an imbalanced schedule the questions of legitimacy surrounding the last 2 regular season champions will become the norm.

Don't think so. No one really questioned the regular season champions in the 16 team Big East.

No one really cared about them either. It was just seeding for the tournament, which in it self may have been harder to win than an NCAA regional.

[hoops22]

I agree that the number of bids is the primary consideration for the stature among conferences, when it comes to the NCAA Tournament. And if it's possible to get the Zags, I would enthusiastically welcome them with open arms. But either way, expansion is coming at some point, because we need to be at maximum strength for whatever shenanigans the football five might have in mind going forward. Even If we don't get Gonzaga, we're still likely to be adding one to three teams in the not too distant future. And although people don't want to hear it, the team that should be at the top of the list outside of the Zags, is UD. I understand the objection from Xavier fans, but I never get the hatred that comes from the fan bases of other schools.

How many people watched the Elite Eight game this year between Kansas and Miami? Well UD beat Kansas and pounded Miami by seventeen earlier in the season. We have a thread in here every season about our wins against the Football Five. Would people like to have had those scalps counted in our total? They beat Virginia Tech as well, another ACC school. On the other board there was a thread about traveling fan bases, and NCAA.com ranked Dayton as the number one traveling fan base in all of college basketball. They create good TV at home with their rabid fan base, but contribute to it on the road as well. During the season cut short by the pandemic, they were going to be a One Seed in the tournament, how many of those have we had? And they do all this on A10 money and A10 exposure. What would happen with Big East money and exposure, and the recruiting advantages that entails? They also had the second youngest team in the entire NCAA this year, starting five freshmen. They're going to be good these next few years, and are popping up on a number of the early preseason lists for next season. We're always conscious of how many teams we have ranked each week, there's a good chance they'll be spending plenty of time there these next few years.

Another argument I don't get is the duplicate market stuff. People in Cincinnati don't care about UD, and people in Dayton don't care about Xavier. They don't share the same TV stations or other media. It's not like Villanova and St. Joes, where the schools are about six miles apart. Ohio St. is more of a threat to both schools then they are to each other. And quite frankly, I would love to see a Xavier/ UD game, knowing how much they hate each other. It honestly might jump to the top of the biggest rivalry we have in the conference right off the bat. Some people complain about the UD posters, but what have they done? They're enthusiastic and supportive of their team and stand by them through thick and thin. I wish my Johnnies had as loyal a fan base. So I realize the Xavier guys will be letting me have it, but like I said, i don't understand the objections coming from everyone else. Add Gonzaga, Dayton and St. Louis, and if we can't get the Zags bring in VCU.

[gtmoBlue]

Hell. If we're gonna expand we may as well "get Real" about it and go 14.

Go Big or stay home! Carleton U/Ottawa, Quebec, Canada... and Notre Dame.



just keepin' it real.

[Husky_U]

Gonzaga, Creighton, Marquette, Depaul, Butler, Xavier, Notre Dame

Providence, UCONN, Seton Hall, St Johns, Villanova, Georgetown, Carleton

[kayako]

At the end of the season people pay attention to things like:
*Number of bids per conference
*Number of teams in Sweet 16 per conference
*Number of teams in Final 4 per conference

People DON'T pay attention to:
*Number of bids per conference relative to conference size
*Number of teams in Sweet 16 per conference relative to conference size
*Number of teams in Final 4 per conference relative to conference size

Agree with your take on perception. And I'd add that number of bids per conference goes beyond perception. With the way tournament credits are earned, it's likely an advantage to get as many bids as possible regardless of conference size. Given similarly seeded groups of teams, 8 out of 16 will likely outperform 6 out of 12. Let's assume that half the teams advance to the second round:

8 + 4 = 12 credits / 0.75 credit per team
6 + 3 = 9 credits / 0.75 credit per team

Equal so far, but 4 teams have better chance to advance to the S16, E8, etc, than 3 teams. And the 16 team conference is more likely to get 9th team in than 12 team conference does 7th team.

Big Ten was the 2nd best performing conference despite being mocked for another disappointing March (although 2-4 was close).

[dakphonics]

I agree that the number of bids is the primary consideration for the stature among conferences, when it comes to the NCAA Tournament. And if it's possible to get the Zags, I would enthusiastically welcome them with open arms. But either way, expansion is coming at some point, because we need to be at maximum strength for whatever shenanigans the football five might have in mind going forward. Even If we don't get Gonzaga, we're still likely to be adding one to three teams in the not too distant future. And although people don't want to hear it, the team that should be at the top of the list outside of the Zags, is UD. I understand the objection from Xavier fans, but I never get the hatred that comes from the fan bases of other schools.

How many people watched the Elite Eight game this year between Kansas and Miami? Well UD beat Kansas and pounded Miami by seventeen earlier in the season. We have a thread in here every season about our wins against the Football Five. Would people like to have had those scalps counted in our total? They beat Virginia Tech as well, another ACC school. On the other board there was a thread about traveling fan bases, and NCAA.com ranked Dayton as the number one traveling fan base in all of college basketball. They create good TV at home with their rabid fan base, but contribute to it on the road as well. During the season cut short by the pandemic, they were going to be a One Seed in the tournament, how many of those have we had? And they do all this on A10 money and A10 exposure. What would happen with Big East money and exposure, and the recruiting advantages that entails? They also had the second youngest team in the entire NCAA this year, starting five freshmen. They're going to be good these next few years, and are popping up on a number of the early preseason lists for next season. We're always conscious of how many teams we have ranked each week, there's a good chance they'll be spending plenty of time there these next few years.

Another argument I don't get is the duplicate market stuff. People in Cincinnati don't care about UD, and people in Dayton don't care about Xavier. They don't share the same TV stations or other media. It's not like Villanova and St. Joes, where the schools are about six miles apart. Ohio St. is more of a threat to both schools then they are to each other. And quite frankly, I would love to see a Xavier/ UD game, knowing how much they hate each other. It honestly might jump to the top of the biggest rivalry we have in the conference right off the bat. Some people complain about the UD posters, but what have they done? They're enthusiastic and supportive of their team and stand by them through thick and thin. I wish my Johnnies had as loyal a fan base. So I realize the Xavier guys will be letting me have it, but like I said, i don't understand the objections coming from everyone else. Add Gonzaga, Dayton and St. Louis, and if we can't get the Zags bring in VCU.

I’m from Omaha and I don’t disagree with much of any of this. I don’t think Dayton is a bad fit in literally any way. I’ve been to Dayton for work and drove up from CVG. It’s an hour away and you drive through the country. It’s like driving from Omaha to Lincoln, or from Madison to Milwaukee, or Indy to Fort Wayne. I also don’t get the concern about Dayton being elevated hurting Xavier. The schools are both Catholic but very different schools in very different towns. Dayton also has a much larger enrollment than Xavier. I think Dayton has the 2nd or 3rd largest enrollment in the country for a Catholic university. And more alumna mean more eyeballs watching. Both Dayton and Xavier have their own unique basketball history. But more importantly, from Cincy, within a couple hours you got Louisville, Kentucky, Ohio State, Indiana, Butler, and Michigan plus about 30 mid-major programs. Dayton having more prestige in basketball does very little to affect things in my view from a perception or recruiting angle.

I get hating a rival and not wanting them to do well. I laugh about the mess Wichita State is in. But if they were playing great ball I wouldn’t at all be mad about having them back to play annually. Rivalry games are the best. For Xavier it’s another opportunity to go to a road game. The closest game for most Creighton fans is sadly DePaul. And that’s still faster to fly than to drive. Im Pro Dayton if there was a reason to add them.

I wouldn’t take them over Gonzaga though. And that Carleton college deal has long been interesting. Don’t know how likely it is for a Canadian university to be an NCAA member though. After that I like Kansas when their media payout collapses and their Football program becomes a pariah to basketball. Beyond that I like VCU and Dayton equally. And after that I like SLU. And I still kinda like Memphis from a footprint perspective, from a big city perspective, and because they play in a Pro Arena. In so many ways they look like a Big East team. And in a lot of other ways they don’t. But we need more public schools. Mixing public and private always makes for great rivalries.

[Hall2012]

I don't hate Dayton (though I have found the few fans who spam this board offputting), I just think that in terms of midwestern A10 schools, Saint Louis is the more appealing choice and I don't actually think it's that close.

[Depaulof89]

Dayton is one of the most valuable basketball teams in the country. They also have one of the most electric atmospheres. And they used to be us quite often back in the independent days. I think Dayton would be very beneficial https://finance.yahoo.com/news/richest- ... 45624.html