Conference Realignment: What Next?

[butlerguy03]

There's nobody out there who just works. If they insist on expanding, I think the best bet would just be to pick the major city / media market you want to get into, invite the biggest private d1 school in it (with a commitment to increasing its basketball investment to an agreed upon level), and trust that the power of the Big East brand along with the increased investment will raise its profile.

It won't be flashy because because the only flashy names out there are simply impractical (aka Gonzaga and Notre Dame aren't coming), but current success doesn't guarantee future success anyway. And I do believe that the league can elevate a program and create its own success.

My preference is for no expansion at all, but if we insist I'd look at the following markets (I'm focusing on midwestern markets to balance the league 6 and 6):

-Pittsburgh: Duquesne
-Detroit: Detroit Mercy (though they're admittedly very small)
-St. Louis: Saint Louis
-Nashville: Belmont
-Minneapolis-St.Paul: St. Thomas*

*Edited to add another long-shot in a good DMA

If this is what the Big East is thinking, they are not in 2022. Cities and markets are useless, especially to a conference in which all games are nationally broadcast anyway. Eyeballs matter. None of these bring any eyeballs. Gonzaga brings eyeballs. So do the formers (ND, Syracuse, maybe Pitt).

Clicks matter in 2022. Not market.

[DudeAnon]

It is obvious that you don't know nor understand the thinking "under the Golden Dome" (Steve).

Logic and contracts have absolutely NOTHING to do with Domer thinking. If the moneyed backers, trustees, and top Admin brass think
they can do better elsewhere - they will leave the ACC...period. The GDer's still think their football can go anywhere at anytime and
still thrive. Football is the only thing holding them to the ACC and should perceptions change in South Bend, ND will leave
in a heartbeat. Their thinking is that they are Special and that their poop smells like roses. GoR be damned.

If there is an apple cart upset this summer? It will be Notre Dame.

Football they need the ACC big time. 5 games(with most of them in October/November). Bowl games. Those 2 key things will keep them there.

I don't think Notre Dame would be the one to challenge the GOR at all anyways. I think it'd be one of the football programs.

Notre Dame is the unicorn of conference realignment. But they signed a long-term contract till 2032 I believe. We should add Gonzaga and St. Mary's as travel partners and play 3 to 4 non-conference games against both. Play 1 or 2 during the conference season if possible.

[stever20]

It is obvious that you don't know nor understand the thinking "under the Golden Dome" (Steve).

Logic and contracts have absolutely NOTHING to do with Domer thinking. If the moneyed backers, trustees, and top Admin brass think
they can do better elsewhere - they will leave the ACC...period. The GDer's still think their football can go anywhere at anytime and
still thrive. Football is the only thing holding them to the ACC and should perceptions change in South Bend, ND will leave
in a heartbeat. Their thinking is that they are Special and that their poop smells like roses. GoR be damned.

If there is an apple cart upset this summer? It will be Notre Dame.

Football they need the ACC big time. 5 games(with most of them in October/November). Bowl games. Those 2 key things will keep them there.

I don't think Notre Dame would be the one to challenge the GOR at all anyways. I think it'd be one of the football programs.

Notre Dame is the unicorn of conference realignment. But they signed a long-term contract till 2032 I believe. We should add Gonzaga and St. Mary's as travel partners and play 3 to 4 non-conference games against both, and sprinkle 1 or 2 during conference season.

It's 2036(the end of their tv contract).

Only problem with doing what you're suggesting IMO is for the 8 teams that play those games- you're going to start getting into the place where you've got 26 games scheduled between 20 conference games, 2 conference challenge games, 3 exempt tourney games, and then the G/SM game. That leaves only like 5 games for everything else.

[Jet915]

Any realignment has to include Gonzaga. If you wanna go big add SLU and Dayton too but I doubt the eastern schools wanna add a western and 2 midwest schools. There just arent any realistic east coast options....

[billyjack]

Just touching on Irish football... the 5 games vs the ACC... in recent times those opponents suck, cuz the ACC is horrible outside of Clemson. And every team in the country would accept a spot on Notre Dame's schedule and any point in the season. It's not like the Irish are going to have to replace Wake or NC State on their schedule with New Mexico State.

Also, every bowl would welcome Notre Dame in a heartbeat.

Their ACC affiliation maybe made sense in 2013 with so much chaos happening in realignment. But 9 years later things have played out differently than expected.

Now, if their 2032 or 2036 commitment pins them in the ACC, then i guess they have no options for awhile. But there always seems to be some wiggle room or fine print that can make things happen. Stever's idea that another ACC school might jump first possibly changes the 2036 clock?... or, as Gtmo pointed out, Notre Dame alums can work something out to break them out of the ACC?

I'm kind of just babbling out thoughts here without thinking too deeply. I just see the Irish returning to the BE as something that could be appealing to them.

P.S. Notre Dame is down 36-31 at Howard U with 18 minutes left, lol.

[Hall2012]

Notre Dame is the unicorn of conference realignment. But they signed a long-term contract till 2032 I believe. We should add Gonzaga and St. Mary's as travel partners and play 3 to 4 non-conference games against both, and sprinkle 1 or 2 during conference season.

It's 2036(the end of their tv contract).

Only problem with doing what you're suggesting IMO is for the 8 teams that play those games- you're going to start getting into the place where you've got 26 games scheduled between 20 conference games, 2 conference challenge games, 3 exempt tourney games, and then the G/SM game. That leaves only like 5 games for everything else.

The other issue, IMO, is that Gonzaga and Saint Mary's are nearly 900 miles apart. That's about as far apart as Seton Hall and Marquette. Our biggest "island" school right now is Creighton, whose shortest road trip is only about half of that. Saint Mary's doesn't give Gonzaga a travel partner, it gives everyone a second travel headache.

[stever20]

Notre Dame is the unicorn of conference realignment. But they signed a long-term contract till 2032 I believe. We should add Gonzaga and St. Mary's as travel partners and play 3 to 4 non-conference games against both, and sprinkle 1 or 2 during conference season.

It's 2036(the end of their tv contract).

Only problem with doing what you're suggesting IMO is for the 8 teams that play those games- you're going to start getting into the place where you've got 26 games scheduled between 20 conference games, 2 conference challenge games, 3 exempt tourney games, and then the G/SM game. That leaves only like 5 games for everything else.

The other issue, IMO, is that Gonzaga and Saint Mary's are nearly 900 miles apart. That's about as far apart as Seton Hall and Marquette. Our biggest "island" school right now is Creighton, whose shortest road trip is only about half of that. Saint Mary's doesn't give Gonzaga a travel partner, it gives everyone a second travel headache.

yeah that's a great point as well. And would have to be done in November/December- and already have a lot of travel there with the exempt tournament. Tough to fly to say Atlantis and then 2 weeks later travel out to Washington for a single game.

[Xudash]

What an odd take? So BE has 3 extremely high-ceiling programs (unlike Fordham) in 3 best markets in the country struggling right now, so we must add Dayton to look big time? To be honest, I see no advantage that Dayton has over VCU.

The deluded Dayton fans make this frustrating at times. Unless the TV execs at FOX demand additions to the league, there will be none. An 11 team league allows for a home-home series which is something I believe the league values. Dayton is not relevant outside of Dayton. Literally no one in college basketball cares about the program and adding them would not improve the television ratings of the league.

The singular reason I felt like an addition was possible over the previous couple of years was to maintain the relationship with MSG. That is, selling out the building for the entirety of the Big East Tournament. The addition of UConn solidified that.

In my opinion, there is only one possible addition that I could see FOX advocating and willing to pay a sizeable contract for - Gonzaga. We know that the league has considered this and Val even said as much publicly. There are many obvious obstacles which can only be overcome with considerable amounts cash. I do not think an addition to the Big East is forthcoming any time soon, but I am quite certain addition of Dayton is not one being considered.

Let's pretend for a moment that I am biased and that I have a strong opinion about Dayton and its low value as a prospective addition to the Big East.

The Big East as a conference should always be centered on what is best for the conference as a whole and not what is best for one of its members on a singular basis, should events or opportunities find those two parties in conflict. I get that and I agree with that entirely.

Nonetheless, certain existing members have varying degrees of passion against adding certain prospective schools. Let's be honest about that. Villanova is in full "boat race" mode in every regard with respect to the Big 5 (albeit PENN is its own unique academic beast). At the very least, Nova "owns" St. Joe's, LossSalle and Temple, yet it cannot possibly have any institutional desire to open the door for any one of those three to the BE, even if Philly is a big enough town to warrant two members. Georgetown most likely thinks along those lines when it comes to Richmond, VCU or both. How would Creighton fans feel about us banging on the drum about inviting Wichita State? Within 2 hours of Cincinnati (which includes Indy and thus Butler), there exists UK, UL, Ohio State, IU and a handful of other schools. Butler and Xavier held their own and developed into BE worthy members over time on their own, but now that we're here, it makes ZERO sense to allow any competitive advantage to slip away or to be taken away.

With all that noted, I can and do agree with prioritizing what is best for the conference because you're absolutely correct: Dayton is not relevant outside of Dayton. Literally no one in college basketball cares about the program and adding them would not improve the television ratings of the league. VD doesn't move anyone's needle when it comes to all this. And you also are on point to point out that MSG really had no attendance problems before UCONN came home, but it sure as hell will not have any moving forward.

I don't need to worry about the BE adding Dayton because the Big East has done and is doing so well since the reboot. It has the luxury of only taking strategic action if and when opportunities present themselves. There is no desperation with this conference. Seriously, we are tracking along for 5+ bids again this year and with multiple teams currently in the Top 25. We simply are not in 'backfill" mode. The round robin is fantastic. Strategic action, at this point, can really only mean the addition of Gonzaga. If things somehow get crazy, particularly with respect to the ACC, then Notre Dame, Syracuse, ?, ? could come into play.

It's good to be in a place where we don't have to worry about the alignment of this conference at this time and probably for the foreseeable future, especially if our next media agreement is strong.

[Hall2012]

There's nobody out there who just works. If they insist on expanding, I think the best bet would just be to pick the major city / media market you want to get into, invite the biggest private d1 school in it (with a commitment to increasing its basketball investment to an agreed upon level), and trust that the power of the Big East brand along with the increased investment will raise its profile.

It won't be flashy because because the only flashy names out there are simply impractical (aka Gonzaga and Notre Dame aren't coming), but current success doesn't guarantee future success anyway. And I do believe that the league can elevate a program and create its own success.

My preference is for no expansion at all, but if we insist I'd look at the following markets (I'm focusing on midwestern markets to balance the league 6 and 6):

-Pittsburgh: Duquesne
-Detroit: Detroit Mercy (though they're admittedly very small)
-St. Louis: Saint Louis
-Nashville: Belmont
-Minneapolis-St.Paul: St. Thomas*

*Edited to add another long-shot in a good DMA

If this is what the Big East is thinking, they are not in 2022. Cities and markets are useless, especially to a conference in which all games are nationally broadcast anyway. Eyeballs matter. None of these bring any eyeballs. Gonzaga brings eyeballs. So do the formers (ND, Syracuse, maybe Pitt).

Clicks matter in 2022. Not market.

Okay, but none of them are realistically coming. And I agree with you that having all national broadcasts reduces the importance somewhat, it's certainly not useless. Even in pro sports, national broadcasts (especially playoff and championship games) with large market teams always do better than those between small market teams. People also like local - neutral fans will pay attention to a local team having a big year - that's a reason why bigger markets help draw eyeballs. I'm not comparing to unrealistic candidates that already have huge brands like Gonzaga and Notre Dame, I'm comparing to smaller markets like Wichita and repeat markets like DC (VCU) and Dayton (it's own DMA but very close to Cincinnati).

[kayako]

If they insist on expanding, I think the best bet would just be to pick the major city / media market you want to get into, invite the biggest private d1 school in it (with a commitment to increasing its basketball investment to an agreed upon level), and trust that the power of the Big East brand along with the increased investment will raise its profile.

Why limit yourself to private? This must be the assumption Dayton fans make and delude themselves into thinking they're the best natural fit for the BE.