The New Big East vs. The Old Big East

[MUBoxer]

Looking at this podcast/site's Twitter they're just out to ruffle feathers with "hot takes" smart to get a following.

Hey man, I appreciate you taking the time to read more of our content. I'm sorry if that's the opinion you came away with, because that's not really what we're going for. At the end of the day, we started this as three guys who went to high school together who just wanted to make each other laugh. As it turns out, people like reading/watching/listening to our stuff, so we put our content in the places we know the audience for a specific piece of content would be. We have a video series coming out every Monday morning where I explain a little further who we are and what we're trying to do. It's called Morning Coffee, you should check it out.

For Big East stuff, we come here because we know we'll get a lot of great feedback on our stuff. For this article specifically, it's just a topic I bring up sometimes sitting around a table with my friends (who I promise I do have). I thought it was kind of a funny and interesting take to put in a blog, so I thought I'd write one out. Wasn't trying to offend people or ruffle any feathers. I realize now that both of those reactions happened. But hey you win some and you lose some, you know?

Thanks again for reading, man.

Well I mean somewhere I look at on your media it literally said "hot takes"... so I figured that was your goal.

I respect that, whatever you guys do for entertainment more power to you and your crew. Honestly, it's funny lists and theoretical comparisons are a blast, before podcasts were a thing I used to argue about similar stuff in the dorms with my friends. Bottom line is when you throw out lists you're going to get criticized, whether it's about food without really researching it or it's about comparing eras of CBB without explaining the methodology. More power to you guys, hope you continue to build your following and enjoy yourselves. Waiting for the ranking the big East cities beer list for me to really go crazy criticizing it lol.

[DudeAnon]

I have no problem admitting that the nBE teams have been doing much of the work outside of Nova for the most part. SHU has been coming on...but Xavier, Butler, Creighton really helped us when other teams like SJ, G'Town, etc. were doing poorly. I think we need to pick it up as a conference in the tourney big time. This is why I liked the UConn return. Outside of Nova, we've been awful in the tourney overall. Need some Sweet 16's and Elite 8's every so often from teams not named UConn or Nova.

Xavier has had 1 elite eight and 2 sweet 16s so I like to think we have contributed some in the post-season. Though choking away the 1 and 2 seeds in the 1st weekend are real hard to swallow.

The way this is phrased makes it sound like 3 runs. It's 2 runs one to the elite 8 and one to the sweet 16, just so everyone knows. Obviously it's 2/3 of the non Nova March contributions but still after 6 tournaments given the prior March streak it's not great either though at least you guys contributed.

Yea, I originally had it as 1 and 1 but Hall2012 already posted UConn's runs in this format so I figured id change it to keep it consistent. Always thought it was funny how tourney stats were listed like that but its always boosted Xavier's resume so I never cared and it does make it easy when comparing individual accomplishments (like sweet 16's for example).

[bigeastbiggerstage]

Looking at this podcast/site's Twitter they're just out to ruffle feathers with "hot takes" smart to get a following.

Hey man, I appreciate you taking the time to read more of our content. I'm sorry if that's the opinion you came away with, because that's not really what we're going for. At the end of the day, we started this as three guys who went to high school together who just wanted to make each other laugh. As it turns out, people like reading/watching/listening to our stuff, so we put our content in the places we know the audience for a specific piece of content would be. We have a video series coming out every Monday morning where I explain a little further who we are and what we're trying to do. It's called Morning Coffee, you should check it out.

For Big East stuff, we come here because we know we'll get a lot of great feedback on our stuff. For this article specifically, it's just a topic I bring up sometimes sitting around a table with my friends (who I promise I do have). I thought it was kind of a funny and interesting take to put in a blog, so I thought I'd write one out. Wasn't trying to offend people or ruffle any feathers. I realize now that both of those reactions happened. But hey you win some and you lose some, you know?

Thanks again for reading, man.

Well I mean somewhere I look at on your media it literally said "hot takes"... so I figured that was your goal.

I respect that, whatever you guys do for entertainment more power to you and your crew. Honestly, it's funny lists and theoretical comparisons are a blast, before podcasts were a thing I used to argue about similar stuff in the dorms with my friends. Bottom line is when you throw out lists you're going to get criticized, whether it's about food without really researching it or it's about comparing eras of CBB without explaining the methodology. More power to you guys, hope you continue to build your following and enjoy yourselves. Waiting for the ranking the big East cities beer list for me to really go crazy criticizing it lol.

Listen I'm not going to sit here and act like there isn't the occasional hot take in what we're saying (i.e. last night), but we're not going for clickbait.

We totally welcome the criticism, by the way. The food thing was a lot of fun for me to hear people talk junk about it because I got to learn about this stuff more. I did my research, but that research was asking a couple of friends from cities I hadn't been to and googling things. I knew going in that there are certain things that you just don't understand unless you've been there. Same with last night's article. I was born in 1997 in Dayton, Ohio, and the only college basketball I really paid attention to growing up were the Wright State games my dad would take me to. Then I went to Xavier and things changed a lot, but I wasn't really plugged into the OBE outside of the occasional game on ESPN in the mid 2000's.

So I'm all good with whatever you guys have to say, man. Keep it coming, I love it.

[DeltaV]

Back to your content, and comments about the Big East:

People say the older era was better because it was deeper. 3 final four teams in '85. 3 #1 seeds in 2009. Syracuse in their prime, UConn, Georgetown, some great West By God Virginia teams, Pitt actually being relevant. Nova peaking as a program at just the right time is wonderful, and I love that Xavier and Seton Hall have made major waves recently (and I love a scrappy Providence team every year making noise as well), but the BIg East always used to have multiple NC contenders every year. Yes, the 2018 Nova team was a buzz saw, and is probably in the top 3 Big East teams ever (and cut the Old vs. New crap, makes you sound like a AACK poster), but we need someone else to make a final four before we can start challenging the 80's.

[billyjack]

This topic gets re-hashed a lot for some reason. Maybe ACC fans at Louisville or Cincinnati or South Florida are trying to sow discord, lol?

In 2014, there were only 2 old Big East teams that i missed having in the Big East--> Syracuse and UConn.

That's all. And UConn is back. I honestly couldn't give two sh-ts about Pitt, BC, Cincinnati, Miami or South Florida. I couldn't care less about Louisville without Pitino. Yeah it was cool having 52 teams in the Big East from 06 to 13.

In contrast, current day, my kids and i look forward to going to every Big East game.

[MullinMayhem]

It still gives me great joy watching Pitt, Cuse, etc. falling into irrelevancy after leaving Big East. Cuse has been slowly fading into an abyss and that's with Boeheim, one of the greatest coaches ever. They will never replace him with someone as good. With him, they're a mid pack ACC team. Without him they may turn into Wake Forest. Pitt used to be very scary to face...I remember when they were very very good. Then they go to ACC, became better in football, but basketball totally irrelevant. It's funny, because these were the very fans that told us we could not succeed without them. UConn said the same, now they come back to us. Funny how things come full circle!

[Xudash]

This topic gets re-hashed a lot for some reason. Maybe ACC fans at Louisville or Cincinnati or South Florida are trying to sow discord, lol?

In 2014, there were only 2 old Big East teams that i missed having in the Big East--> Syracuse and UConn.

That's all. And UConn is back. I honestly couldn't give two sh-ts about Pitt, BC, Cincinnati, Miami or South Florida. I couldn't care less about Louisville without Pitino. Yeah it was cool having 52 teams in the Big East from 06 to 13.

In contrast, current day, my kids and i look forward to going to every Big East game.

I really like your take. We truly are part of a special conference situation.

Your response got me thinking about the last major restructuring in the Big East prior to us coming together in 2013 (the one where PITT, and Syracuse, in particular, left for the ACC). I cannot imagine what the C7 were going through during that period, when everything the conference pursued was based on the best interests of football programs. I would have been tearing my hair out.

You had a much bigger problem than existed in the A10, which was and remains about very poor management and way too much tolerance for underperforming, non-caring programs. You guys had the exact opposite problem back then - a ton of success in basketball being torn up by football; football was the lightning rod.

[GoldenWarrior11]

This topic gets re-hashed a lot for some reason. Maybe ACC fans at Louisville or Cincinnati or South Florida are trying to sow discord, lol?

In 2014, there were only 2 old Big East teams that i missed having in the Big East--> Syracuse and UConn.

That's all. And UConn is back. I honestly couldn't give two sh-ts about Pitt, BC, Cincinnati, Miami or South Florida. I couldn't care less about Louisville without Pitino. Yeah it was cool having 52 teams in the Big East from 06 to 13.

In contrast, current day, my kids and i look forward to going to every Big East game.

I really like your take. We truly are part of a special conference situation.

Your response got me thinking about the last major restructuring in the Big East prior to us coming together in 2013 (the one where PITT, and Syracuse, in particular, left for the ACC). I cannot imagine what the C7 were going through during that period, when everything the conference pursued was based on the best interests of football programs. I would have been tearing my hair out.

You had a much bigger problem than existed in the A10, which was and remains about very poor management and way too much tolerance for underperforming, non-caring programs. You guys had the exact opposite problem back then - a ton of success in basketball being torn up by football; football was the lightning rod.

2011/2012 was not a fun time for us, conference-wise. Losing Syracuse and Pittsburgh were gut punches. Losing Notre Dame and Louisville was the knockout. However, what is often forgotten (but routinely revealed in forum discussion here and elsewhere) is that the entitlement from the "New" Big East call-ups (UCF, Houston, Memphis, SMU, and, later, Tulane and ECU) in the form of perceived value, tradition and prestige (in football and basketball) was miscalculated, to say the least. There were regular insults about the football schools were more valuable than the basketball programs, that basketball schools could not compete in the new upcoming landscape and that they had always been leaches.

During the divorce talks, the sensationalism only grew. Fans from these schools believed that they were entitled to the Big East brand and name, despite never playing in it. They believed that they were deserving of all of the exit fees and that the basketball schools should rot and be left behind. Then they believed there was some mass conspiracy when the C7 got paid more for their content than a full sports league. The tin-foil hats, much like when UConn announced it was returning home, were out in full force.

The day the Big East rebranded was an incredibly cathartic day. It brought a renewed sense of pride and excitement. It showed that the league would remain a basketball first entity with like minded membership. No more fear of losing members to other conferences and no more threats from ESPN to raid and dissolve it.

The New Big East may not be the Old Big East, but we are forging ahead on a new path together, and the path thus far has brought everything and then some in terms of opportunity and success. I am one very proud MU/BE fan, and could not be happier for the future.

[DudeAnon]

Back to your content, and comments about the Big East:

People say the older era was better because it was deeper. 3 final four teams in '85. 3 #1 seeds in 2009. Syracuse in their prime, UConn, Georgetown, some great West By God Virginia teams, Pitt actually being relevant. Nova peaking as a program at just the right time is wonderful, and I love that Xavier and Seton Hall have made major waves recently (and I love a scrappy Providence team every year making noise as well), but the BIg East always used to have multiple NC contenders every year. Yes, the 2018 Nova team was a buzz saw, and is probably in the top 3 Big East teams ever (and cut the Old vs. New crap, makes you sound like a AACK poster), but we need someone else to make a final four before we can start challenging the 80's.

What would you consider a NC contender? Because as I pointed out earlier, the OBE had some very lean years with regards to Final Four appearances. Does a top 3 seed constitute a NC contender? If so, the four of the 10 NBE programs have contested for a NC in the NBE: Nova, Xavier, Creighton and Seton Hall. I have no problem debating one versus the other, but lets use some numbers instead of your emotions. Lest we forget, the OBE had 16 members. So while you may have had another 1 or 2 relevant teams, you likely had 4-5 more who weren't.

[MUBoxer]

Back to your content, and comments about the Big East:

People say the older era was better because it was deeper. 3 final four teams in '85. 3 #1 seeds in 2009. Syracuse in their prime, UConn, Georgetown, some great West By God Virginia teams, Pitt actually being relevant. Nova peaking as a program at just the right time is wonderful, and I love that Xavier and Seton Hall have made major waves recently (and I love a scrappy Providence team every year making noise as well), but the BIg East always used to have multiple NC contenders every year. Yes, the 2018 Nova team was a buzz saw, and is probably in the top 3 Big East teams ever (and cut the Old vs. New crap, makes you sound like a AACK poster), but we need someone else to make a final four before we can start challenging the 80's.

What would you consider a NC contender? Because as I pointed out earlier, the OBE had some very lean years with regards to Final Four appearances. Does a top 3 seed constitute a NC contender? If so, the four of the 10 NBE programs have contested for a NC in the NBE: Nova, Xavier, Creighton and Seton Hall. I have no problem debating one versus the other, but lets use some numbers instead of your emotions. Lest we forget, the OBE had 16 members. So while you may have had another 1 or 2 relevant teams, you likely had 4-5 more who weren't.

In regards to your claim about this Final Four lull. you ignored my response last time and again I think it needs some fact checking regarding that 8yr run of the 16 team conference before you continue to perpetuate this myth. The Big East accounted for 8 of 32 final four appearances during that stretch. Good for 25% and considering there's 6 power conferences and a few other high profile programs I'd call 25% above average success.

Also hindsight's 20/20 but it's hard to say any of those years were natty contenders when they didn't make the second weekend.