Conference Realignment: What Next?

[trephin]

The feeling for X by us is similar. The Christy incident is one incident , and we have formally apologized to her for the poor behavior of a few immature drunk college kids. After all, she is in our HOF and married an X head coach. Complicated, but those kid's behavior was wrong, plain and simple. . But keep bringing that up, I could reciprocate in kind ("zip em up!") . But as the guest, I will not post any further rebuttal, and defer to you for any final response. UD Flyer Fanatic.... signing out!

i'm not a Xaxier fan and have no specific issue with Dayton. I don't see expansion with UConn back and certainly leave the rivalry and it's behavior to Xavier fans. Something you typed struck me however as bothersome.

I don't know details the the Christy Mack incident although I have heard it mention before. If "the kid's behavior was wrong, plain and simple" then it WASN''T complicated. Are you saying there could be circumstances that could have made it alright? It seems to me that Xavier fans keep bringing it up only when UD candidacy for BE inclusion comes up (usually by a UD fan). Marks against your (intitution) record may become less important with time but they still exist as historical record. Fair or not, a few bad apples, even if rooted out are still part of the history. I'm sure Xavier fans would just as likely forget the Crosstown Shootout brawl; however, even if the people involved are gone, it happened.

[Xudash]

The feeling for X by us is similar. The Christy incident is one incident , and we have formally apologized to her for the poor behavior of a few immature drunk college kids. After all, she is in our HOF and married an X head coach. Complicated, but those kid's behavior was wrong, plain and simple. . But keep bringing that up, I could reciprocate in kind ("zip em up!") . But as the guest, I will not post any further rebuttal, and defer to you for any final response. UD Flyer Fanatic.... signing out!

You noted above that you would probably not post again for a couple years. Oh, well.

The “zip em up thing” obviously has to do with UC, and it came from an emotionally charged, passionate New York kid who used it as an expression, not literally. A VD fan bringing that incident up here is just weak.

With its move to the Big East, Xavier established a material strategic advantage over UD. That’s the simple truth. Most Xavier fans don’t want to have anything to do with UD, because of its fan behavior, but certainly because of that advantage. BTW, I went to the Dump for an away game with a friend once only to come out afterwards to find his car (new) keyed by some asshole UD fan.

As crazy as it sounds, the UC rivalry, especially now that Huggins is long gone, is enjoyable. Passionate. Highly regarded nationally. And, all in all, without the incessant fan bullsh--. Xavier isn’t lacking for an annual rivalry game.

Finally, you need to know that Xavier doesn’t “fear” UD. The last time we played you we blew you off the floor in Orlando. Otherwise, “Jimmy Carter”.

I can assure that UD’s recruiting would get much better if it could offer the Big East experience. But UD isn’t in the Big East. It’s in a watered down A10, where it’s margin for error is brutal.

We just landed a 4-star 6’10” kid from South Carolina as the first kid locked into our 2021 class. He’ll be joining a lot of serious young talent next year. That’s the beauty of being a member of the BIG EAST. If you want to believe that Anthony
Grant can keep up with that, UD’s anomaly season of last year aside, knock yourself out.

[X-man]

Here's some real honesty from a Xavier fan, and many more X fans who agree with me. Unlike you, UD fans by and large tend to be unabashed and unrealistic jerks. They have the only arena in college basketball where the home team never commits a foul. They don't hesitate to insult and throw refuse on any opposition team that shows up for a game at their arena. They are so classless that they rooted for Xavier's opponent during the NCAA tournament even when Xavier was in the same league as they are. And they didn't hesitate to throw one of their own players (Christy Mack) under the bus because she had the temerity to marry a (former) Xavier coach and therefore deserved to be insulted unmercifully when she attended A-10 games at UD Arena. And this partly was because Mack, as a Evansville player, threw a ball off a UD player's face on an inbounds play called by the disreputable Evansville coach. So no, most Xavier fans never want to see the Flyers in their league again...ever.

Sounds like a good rivalry. X and Dayton should play once in a while.

A good rivalry would be one where the teams were competitive. I came to Cincinnati in 1984, and they have never won against the Muskies in Cincinnati. Hence the chant "Jimmy Carter" that X students would shower on Flyer teams back in the day.

[jbarajas0490]

I'm a Marquette fan and would love to see another catholic Midwest school who would compete right away and c'mon who wouldn't want to watch x and ud in bloody rivalry game every year maybe a home and home would make amazing television. But that's just me.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I, too, appreciate the X fan's honesty. Of course the UD fans see this is as some admission of fear towards the UD rivalry. I don't see it that way and I'm sure the X fans certainly don't. Why should X--after their unwavering commitment to producing a great BB program over several decades that led them to a BE invite--concede any advantage they have over any other program (in or out of conference)?

Let's go back in time. The year is 2013 and the 7 BE BB only Catholic Schools are looking to bolt. 5 of their schools are East coast and 2 midwest--Chicago and Milwaukee. So logically they look towards the mid-west for balance, both competitively and geographically. If you're looking to build a conference on the back of BB excellence and both X and Dayton are candidates in OH here's the ledger that the C7 was looking at then.

1990-2013
Xavier - 17 NCAA bids, 6 Sw. 16's; 3 E8's
Dayton - 5 NCAA bids, 0 S16's

So what are we talking about here? You are looking at your success since then and wondering why you don't have a seat at the table. But you guys were probably even behind SLU who had a better BB resume than you back in 2013. So why the hang-ups about how the X fans feel? Who cares. Of course X fans aren't going to say anything nice--you guys have a history.

But from a non-X fan I will tell you that: 1). You didn't earn an invite and X, BU and CU did; and 2). you don't deserve one now; and 3) if you guys take off and become the Gonzaga of the midwest and, on the court at least, seem to "deserve" an invite, I would hope that if X didn't want you in, the Nova Pres. would support that. We're Brothers in Arms here in the BE. We succeed together when each individual member school can be the best it can be. If you guys lose potential recruits to the BE or to X specifically, I would be ecstatic. Should I cry when we lose recruits to Duke or UK? Of course not. All you can do is to take care of you. Dayton can certainly be successful outside the BE. So my advice would be to just let it go. Hope that your team can replicate the success it had last year. Grant is doing a great job. I think the BE ship for Dayton sailed back in 2013 and at that time your school did a poor job investing in your hoops program. It bit you in the ass. Bummer. Move on.

[GoldenWarrior11]

I will always be for any move that will add value to the conference (expansion or otherwise). For right now, there is little question that the BE can sit tight at 11 and prosper. With UConn, we can still keep the R/R, while moving to 20-conference games and add an extra game to the BET. However, long-term, the league should always consider growth opportunities. I think one of the next steps for league growth is without a question to add sessions to the BET. Now, does this mean add anyone for the sake of reaching that goal? Absolutely not. However, does that mean the BE should only consider home run additions as well? I don't think so either. If a like-minded successful school (basketball-first) with a solid history, strong fan support and modern facilities can be added without the present BE resources, then - long-term - it should absolutely be considered IMO.

The "sweet spot" for a non-football conference, IMO, is 12/14 members (anything larger and it becomes easy to dilute the product). The good news is that the Big East, in its present form, does not need to view expansion as a reactionary impulse (much like many of the OBE expansion moves were). It can be selective, decisive and calculated in any move it chooses to pursue.

The good news is that a number of programs that have been regularly discussed as potential expansion members (Dayton, VCU, SLU) continue to heavily invest and get fan support that is on-par with the BE collective without its resources. Any expansion member needs to be good on their own, and not need the BE banner to be successful. Who knows - in a post-COVID world, it might very well make sense to create two six-pod divisions for travel purposes in basketball and Olympic sports; that would make programs like UD and/or SLU very appealing indeed.

[kayako]

Win the national title and show coaching stability. Do that and Val probably entertains the idea. Doesn't matter if Xavier cries that it's unfair. It's not even that much closer than Providence & Storrs. It'll take time, but I'm rooting for a program to emerge as an expansion candidate.

[Hall2012]

UD's been decent lately and if the Big East had to expand for some reason they probably would make the short list of candidates, but it's not like they're some can't miss candidate that we'd expand just for the sake of adding. Plus it's not like they're going anywhere. They have no chance of ending up in a more desirable conference than the Big East (unless they upgrade football), so we have plenty of time to be patient and see how the college basketball landscape shapes out and they'll still be available.

[Xudash]

Win the national title and show coaching stability. Do that and Val probably entertains the idea. Doesn't matter if Xavier cries that it's unfair. It's not even that much closer than Providence & Storrs. It'll take time, but I'm rooting for a program to emerge as an expansion candidate.

So, you would agree that holds true for St. Joe's as well? A national title and coaching stability out of them, then we entertain accepting St. Joe's into the Big East? You made it clear that distance doesn't matter, so no reason to be arbitrary with that. Besides, Philadelphia is a big city, and the A10 used to have three teams located there.

Obviously, that was a rhetorical question. Gumby has it right: the member Presidents are going to - or at least should - respect the wishes/desires/preferences of their fellow member Presidents. The schools are a unified, successful group. And you should always respect your business partners, so long as they hold up their end of the bargain.

Hall2012 has it right, too: UD isn't a can't miss candidate, and there is nothing about their history and track record that suggests they'll become a midwestern "Gonzaga" - especially now that they must manage and run a basketball program within a weak conference.

Imagine what it should take for any program to be considered as a candidate for the 12th slot. Tall order at this point.

[DudeAnon]

The fact is, for many P5 programs, basketball is an afterthought. Xavier was regarded as a mid-major for decades but since joining the Big East I have seen how many P5 programs really don't have strong basketball programs and fanbases. Shit, the SEC only recently seemed to even try outside of UK and Florida.

I try to comment as an unbiased fan because this is a Big East board, not a Xavier message board. While UD's addition would be a slight ding to Xavier's ability to recruit, it would be a net benefit for the Big East imo.

They are shitheads and half the league will hate them, but this is sports, have some fun.