Future BE Member Saint Louis vs St. Bonny A-10 Championship

[Hoopfan]

2a) – Please see: Do Dayton and Xavier still compete for high school students as 'customers' ? (originally posted on September 7, 2017).

2b) – Please see: Exploding the "Southwest Ohio College Basketball TV Market" Myth. (originally posted on September 7, 2017).

3) – A five-year average RPI/NET Ranking of #194 is not ‘painfully inconsistent’. It is embarrassing.

4a) – In a city of 2,800,000 people, in a season when the Billikens were predicted to win the Atlantic 10 Championship (and did), the Billikens still averaged fewer than 7,000 fans per game (and more than 3,500 empty seats per game). The Billikens will always be second to the Missouri Tigers in the St. Louis college sports TV market. It is quite probable that the apathy shown towards Billikens basketball at the Chaifetz Arena turnstiles is reflected in the viewership of Billikens basketball on TV.

4b) – A trio of 2019 commitment who are presently ranked #297, #332, and #389 would not fit anyone’s definition of “three highly-touted recruits”.

5a) – St. Louis never has been and never will be a ‘college basketball’ city. The size of the media market is of little consequence when the market has little interest in college basketball in general, and little interest in the Saint Louis Billikens in particular.

Oh Fieldhouse... I can see why you'd be so volatile after the way this season has treated you. Let's see:

2A and 2B) All of these stats still miss the point, you do not add anything in comparison of the St. Louis Market. So Dayton and Cincinnati are two different TV markets... So you add the 64th largest TV market and a small share of the 34th largest TV market instead of the 21st largest market? Stop. The Billikens broadcast every non-National TV game on Fox Sports Midwest, which is guaranteed to be in the homes of every St. Louisan because that is the network the Cardinals play on. In the city of St. Louis you are always competing for second place to the Cards, which is fine and well. So you ride their coattails as best you can. And the Bills do it well. The games on FSMW feature a broadcast team led by Dan McLaughlin, the TV voice of the Cardinals. Their radio broadcasts are led by local sports radio host Bob Ramsey. You have two of the biggest media names in St. Louis without the last name "Buck" as the ambassadors for the program. What's more is that are legit fans of the programs, constantly acting on behalf of the school. The post-Rams era of St. Louis sports has been, and will continue to be a massive opportunity for every team in the Lou. St. Louisans are desperate to support anything with "Saint Louis" on the jersey.

Furthermore, SLU has huge alumni bases in the Big East markets of Chicago and New York, our two largest alumni orgs in terms of money donated to the school. You add incremental TV viewers in Big East markets, you add incremental seats in Big East markets. What is the Dayton alumni base like in the Big Apple? I'd be willing to bet that the SLU base in Cincinnati itself is not insignificant with how many students come in from Cincy high schools. You can fill Dayton's off campus arena as much as you want, the only time Dayton has more screens that the Billikens is when the First Four is being broadcasted in March.

3) The Dayton-SLU series is 9-11 in favor of Dayton since 2010. That's a game away from .500. Over those past ten years, points for the Bills:1,211; points for the Flyers: 1,246. The Bills and Flyers each have 4 NCAA appearances. The Bills have 2 Conference Season Championships, the Flyers have 1 shared, and 1 outright. The Bills have 2 Conference Tournament Championships, the Flyers have none. So, for a nearly identical head to head match-up, I'll take my two trophy advantage. That's actually three trophies if you recall we are the current holders of the illustrious Arch-Baron Cup. Dayton really seems to have an edge on this "embarrassing" program.

4B) You should be careful throwing around recruiting rankings, seeing that SLU has the second highest rated class in the A10, which is, woof, 7 spots higher than Dayton at 9. All three of those recruits are 3 stars by any recruiting service ranking, the national numbers don't even begin to tell the story on them. What's more is that two of those three recruits are from the Lou, for a city that doesn't care, the players from that city sure seem to. (See also: Goodwin, Jordan. 5 Star recruit from St. Louis currently on the roster.) Dayton picks up the recruiting scraps from X, UC, and often Ohio State. SLU punches with Mizzou and Illinois, and often wins.

5A) I think this actually just brings me to the over-arching point: What do you really think Dayton adds to the Big East? What do you think Fox Executives and Val Ackerman would see in Dayton? A dedicated fan base? Sure. A bridge between Marquette/Depaul and Creighton? No. A significant media market? No. An institutional fit? Sure. Yet, SLU is just as strong there. Actually, stronger, its a higher ranked school, with a larger endowment, more research capability, and a more widely spread alumni base.

Listen, Dayton fans, while my rivals, are dope, they show out for games, they get loud, they love their hoops. But there is an institution in the Big East that hates Dayton, it ain't happening. This is about what the next school brings to the table, and you'd rather have another major media market rather than another slice of Southwest Ohio, its as simple as that.

It’s ok to be a homer for your school, unless you fieldhouse who should be paid by UD for all the post. But damn dude, you are way out in left field. Does anyone really care about your 2 conference tournament wins? How many games has SLU won in the real big boy tournament? You throw a lot of “facts” out with no support to back any of it up. I’m glad you’re willing to bet a lot though.

NOT MORE OF THIS.

No reason the Big East adds an A-10 team right now. If it is a major basketball name, yes, but I'm sorry - for what you have in Dayton and Saint Louis - those are not schools people outside of college basketball diehards know of as a basketball school, it would look like a mid-major move, similar to Loyola going to the MVC a few years ago. Butler, Temple, and Xavier were the biggest names in the A-10, and they've been poached. Creighton and Wichita were the biggest names in the MVC, and have been poached. All 5 of those were "basketball schools" to the outside person.

Butler and x I can get behind. Creighton I’d disagree with and Wichita is quickly fading. Creighton is not a name brand team way others are to an outside person. Hell, I hd no idea they were in Omaha until they joined the BE

[GoldenWarrior11]

Butler and x I can get behind. Creighton I’d disagree with and Wichita is quickly fading. Creighton is not a name brand team way others are to an outside person. Hell, I hd no idea they were in Omaha until they joined the BE

If you didn't know where Creighton was (and was in Omaha) before getting into the Big East, then you are not a knowledgeable college hoops fan.

[pc5151]

I want absolutely nothing to do with Dayton in the Big East. If we do have to expand Id take St Louis over them as a no brainer. Next I would focus on teams on the East Coast and would even take Duquesne over Dayton. Dont care if they end up as another DePaul, the Pittsburgh market is far better than Dayton. Throw in Xavier blocking them and Dayton has zero chance of ever joining the Big East, which makes me happy

[jbarajas0490]

I would take Notre Dame the biggest brand name and richest catholic school in the country.

[jbarajas0490]

The best east coast Catholic program is probably St. Josephs or Boston College.

[gtmoBlue]

SLU and an Eastern school, or 2 Eastern scchools would be fine. Bonnies, BU, or NorthEastern would be acceptable bottom feeders to boost our middle tier into the dance.
If we were to go to 13 or 14 teams, then add Gonzaga and any major castoff from the ACC or Vandy or GW. Hell, I'd consider Yale or Princeton as well.

Ideally for 12...SLU and one of the 3 Eastern schools in line 1.
For 14...add the Zags and Vandy or an ACC castoff (ND, S'Cuse, WF, Duke).

Of course this is all old news as we've covered this in 20 different threads over the last 6 years...move along - nothing to see here...

[DudeAnon]

Gimme Dayton & VCU. Dedicated fanbases that will get up for Big East games and travel to MSG.

[Hoopfan]

Butler and x I can get behind. Creighton I’d disagree with and Wichita is quickly fading. Creighton is not a name brand team way others are to an outside person. Hell, I hd no idea they were in Omaha until they joined the BE

If you didn't know where Creighton was (and was in Omaha) before getting into the Big East, then you are not a knowledgeable college hoops fan.

I’ve never been anywhere near Nebraska and don’t plan on travelling there. What would,ever make me wake up one day and google where Creighton was located? Same with Wichita...had they not made their run I’d never have known. Let’s call a spade a spade and realize Middle the country isn’t going to get the same media exposure, especially a team coming out of MVC. McDermott winning player of year did more for them than any of their wins in NCAAT.

But yea, I’m not a knowledgeable college hoop fan for not caring about a random team that I have no allegiance to

[gtmoBlue]

Gimme Dayton & VCU. Dedicated fanbases that will get up for Big East games and travel to MSG.

Hey! It's the DudeAnon...Where have you been lately? Cayman's, USVI, Puerto Rico? You have been missed.

PS: I grew up in Nebraska and still have trouble finding it!

[NJRedman]

Butler and x I can get behind. Creighton I’d disagree with and Wichita is quickly fading. Creighton is not a name brand team way others are to an outside person. Hell, I hd no idea they were in Omaha until they joined the BE

If you didn't know where Creighton was (and was in Omaha) before getting into the Big East, then you are not a knowledgeable college hoops fan.

Well I certainly weren't aware of them or most of the MVC. You guys are mid-westerners so they are in your neck of the woods. I bet we out here know more of the MAAC and NEC schools than you guys too.