Big 5- Martelli gone

[kayako]

How much longer is Nova locked into these games? Honestly, I know for the most part they've dominated, but they should replace them with games that have better exposure. Nova already owns the Philly market. Maybe keep playing Temple, but being locked into H&Hs with St. Joe's, Penn and LaSalle each year is crazy.

I look at it completely opposite. Nova really benefits by getting to earn credit for "road wins" without ever leaving town.

Yep. Also, it's not like you would replace the home games with big-time games. Villanova just has fewer traditional buy games than other programs. For example, Xavier generally has 5 buy games plus an exempt tournament add-on, while Nova has 3.

That means Xavier gets to generate extra revenue from +1 or +2 home games. Come back at me when Xavier plays @Dayton.

[ArmyVet]

How much longer is Nova locked into these games? Honestly, I know for the most part they've dominated, but they should replace them with games that have better exposure. Nova already owns the Philly market. Maybe keep playing Temple, but being locked into H&Hs with St. Joe's, Penn and LaSalle each year is crazy.

I look at it completely opposite. Nova really benefits by getting to earn credit for "road wins" without ever leaving town.

How are they not road games? When they fell @ Penn this year, were there many Nova fans in the crowd? I'd think if anything, these mid major local rivals would be extra excited to play Nova. Also consider that they mostly play in small (loud) gyms.

There's a reason none of the other power teams play @ local mid majors (or play @ any mid majors). Nova is the only team that does that.

But hey, if Nova likes the setup then I won't question them. I just assumed they wanted out.

There is literally no travel involved. It's an opponent gym. Good for Nova's metrics getting road wins and a plus for Nova's budget not having to pay travel expenses to get road wins.

I don't see a downside.

[kayako]

There's a reason none of the other power teams play @ local mid majors (or play @ any mid majors). Nova is the only team that does that.

But hey, if Nova likes the setup then I won't question them. I just assumed they wanted out.

Rollie saw this as a less than optimal arrangement and had it reduced to two games per season. I wasn't around back then, but this makes even less sense now than it did back then.

[adoraz]

I look at it completely opposite. Nova really benefits by getting to earn credit for "road wins" without ever leaving town.

How are they not road games? When they fell @ Penn this year, were there many Nova fans in the crowd? I'd think if anything, these mid major local rivals would be extra excited to play Nova. Also consider that they mostly play in small (loud) gyms.

There's a reason none of the other power teams play @ local mid majors (or play @ any mid majors). Nova is the only team that does that.

But hey, if Nova likes the setup then I won't question them. I just assumed they wanted out.

There is literally no travel involved. It's an opponent gym. Good for Nova's metrics getting road wins and a plus for Nova's budget not having to pay travel expenses to get road wins.

I don't see a downside.

There are definitely some downsides. If there weren't, then every power team in the nation would follow their model. As it stands, nobody else does.

I get that they don't need to physically travel too much, but I think they'd be better off making these games home or neutral (and in some cases, not scheduling at all).

If they win all 4, then it's worth it. For the most part they have done that, because they were a historically dominate team for years. Now, however, they aren't at that level. They already lost once this year @ Penn. I expect that to keep happening going forward. They nearly lost a couple of the other games, too. I anticipate Nova fans are going to sour on these games very soon.

As a Johnnies fan, if you told me we signed up for H&Hs with Columbia, LIU, Fordham and Wagner... I'd be pissed. Sounds terrible.

[stever20]

There are definitely some downsides. If there weren't, then every power team in the nation would follow their model. As it stands, nobody else does.

I get that they don't need to physically travel too much, but I think they'd be better off making these games home or neutral (and in some cases, not scheduling at all).

If they win all 4, then it's worth it. For the most part they have done that, because they were a historically dominate team for years. Now, however, they aren't at that level. They already lost once this year @ Penn. I expect that to keep happening going forward. They nearly lost a couple of the other games, too. I anticipate Nova fans are going to sour on these games very soon.

As a Johnnies fan, if you told me we signed up for H&Hs with Columbia, LIU, Fordham and Wagner... I'd be pissed. Sounds terrible.

Temple, St Joe's, and Penn a lot different than those other programs...
Temple- making it's 10th NCAA appearance since 2000, 33 all time
St Joe's- 6 NCAA appearances since 2000, 21 all time
Penn- 7 NCAA appearances since 2000. 24 all time
even LaSalle made it once, 12 all time

Columbia- last appearance 1968, 3 ever
LIU- 4 NCAA apperances since 2000, 7 ever
Fordham- last appearance 1992, 4 ever
Wagner- 1 and only NCAA appearance 2003

so since 2000- Philly schools 24 times, your 5 schools 5 times.
All time, it's 90-15.

A HUGE difference.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I’m a college BB purist. I love the Big 5. Nothing like it anywhere in the country. I hope they keep it.

The firing of Martelli was bound to happen. Did I hear something like 1 tourney appearance in the last decade? Last 3 years were all losing seasons. Their chief rival absolutely tattooed them in their building the last two times we were there. I just think the proud alums were tired of seeing it. When Fran D. was shown the door at Temple, I thought Phil might be in some trouble. It signaled that one of their key rivals wasn’t happy with their results, and the Owls have been much better than the Hawks.

I wish him well. Always seemed like a great guy and I know he and Jay W are buds.

[adoraz]

Funny how 5+ years ago, St. John's used the hashtag #stjbb (was that it?) rather than the currently used #sjubb. sju.edu goes to the St. Joe's website, and the schools fought for that trademark for many years (which St. Joe's owns). As of today, St. Joe's has been nearly forgotten about in basketball. That undefeated regular season seems like generations ago. Glad St. John's said screw it and just decided to brand themselves as SJU on social media anyways.

[herodotus]

I've always felt that Phil squandered his opportunity to build from that peak in 2003, and 2004. Compare his results to what Chaney did after Temple was ranked #1 in 1988. Temple went on a 13 year run that saw them rule the Big5, have many ranked teams, and reach the Elite Eight 4 more times. St. Joe's quickly faded back into oblivion. This should be somewhat of a lesson to some of the teams in this league that were down, but have now tasted some success, as well as DePaul, who is still trying to rise. If you rise up, don't become content with that, you have to redouble your efforts to make your new status the norm, otherwise, you can quickly return to oblivion. Gonzaga, and Wichita are two very good examples of teams that leveraged a great season into sustained success, but for every one of those, there's a George Mason, or Wake Forest, who quickly fades after their run.

[DeltaV]

I’m a college BB purist. I love the Big 5. Nothing like it anywhere in the country. I hope they keep it.

The firing of Martelli was bound to happen. Did I hear something like 1 tourney appearance in the last decade? Last 3 years were all losing seasons. Their chief rival absolutely tattooed them in their building the last two times we were there. I just think the proud alums were tired of seeing it. When Fran D. was shown the door at Temple, I thought Phil might be in some trouble. It signaled that one of their key rivals wasn’t happy with their results, and the Owls have been much better than the Hawks.

I wish him well. Always seemed like a great guy and I know he and Jay W are buds.

I think you'll find a majority of Nova fans are in favor of keeping the Big 5. It's a local honor, and a camaraderie similar to the Big East. It's a Philly thing; I'd assume any Nova fan who looks down on the Big 5 is likely from someplace else.

[kayako]

I think you'll find a majority of Nova fans are in favor of keeping the Big 5. It's a local honor, and a camaraderie similar to the Big East. It's a Philly thing; I'd assume any Nova fan who looks down on the Big 5 is likely from someplace else.

If "keeping" the Big 5 has to be at 4 games per year and no less, Nova's the only party that's compromising. It was a Philly thing to play all those games at the Palestra, too.

Anyway, the suggestion that changes will be made to the current arrangement because Martelli is gone is ridiculous. If anything, Jay will probably be relied on being a leader of the Big 5 now... smh