The Next Five Years [ From 16 July 2018 ]

[adoraz]

Also, just wanted to point out that a lot of people here seem to think that one team's success means another team's failure. That is absolutely not true. Yes, obviously the Big East regular season rankings will be impacted, but that's it. We are not a conference of Top 25 teams with limited space at the top. Every single team, with the exception of Nova, can improve their OOC performance. If Creighton, for example, has a Top 10 year OOC next year it is not going to cost anyone in the conference a bid. It will do the opposite and help the conference out significantly.

Now, if Creighton goes 7-5 OOC and then goes 16-2 in conference that'd be a bad thing (even though they'd play themselves into a bid, so not THAT bad). The conference is way too strong for that to happen, though.

First and foremost I just want to see everyone doing well OOC. That should always be the #1 priority.

[FriarJ]

I think the best thing possible for the conference would be for the top 5 to look like this 5 years from now:

1. Georgetown
2. St. John's
3. Nova
4. DePaul
5. Marquette

Yes, C7 bias but I'd have a hard time seeing why that wouldn't be true. Nova has established themselves as a blue blood and need to remain top 3. The other 4 are all sleeping giants (with the possible exception of DePaul) in major media markets with large alumni bases. Their ceiling are extremely high. As much as GTMO likes Creighton, it'd be bad for a team like them to be at the very top every year.

If you asked Fox right now who they would rather be #1 next year, Creighton or St. John's, does anybody here honestly believe they'd say Creighton?

Keep in mind, we've seen Nova fans pack the Garden the past couple years and really help attendance. Nova is close to the Garden, but SJU is right there. You're never going to have Creighton or Xavier fans turn out like that due to their locations.

Eventually all of you (many have already) are going to have to come to terms with the fact that Providence is not going away under Cooley, Recruiting is at a high level and that was before the practice facility even opens. It opens in 2 months btw.

[gtmoBlue]

FriarJ... your post brings us back to Prov.

Your boy Cooley has done good. Can he do better? Won a Bet, 5 straight Dances. Better recruiting and now new facilities - can he win the conference and do some NCAA runs? Can he geter done or has he maxed out?

and Adoraz. Creighton is NYC's team - the city has adopted the Jays since the Johnnies are hybernating. New Yorkers turn out for a exciting court presence. Fox may "prefer" da Johnnies, but performance will dictate. I wouldn't be surprised if the newbies are leading the pack in 5 years.

1 Xavier
2 Creighton
3 Providence
4 Villanova
5 Butler

[scoscox]

I think the best thing possible for the conference would be for the top 5 to look like this 5 years from now:

1. Georgetown
2. St. John's
3. Nova
4. DePaul
5. Marquette

Yes, C7 bias but I'd have a hard time seeing why that wouldn't be true. Nova has established themselves as a blue blood and need to remain top 3. The other 4 are all sleeping giants (with the possible exception of DePaul) in major media markets with large alumni bases. Their ceiling are extremely high. As much as GTMO likes Creighton, it'd be bad for a team like them to be at the very top every year.

If you asked Fox right now who they would rather be #1 next year, Creighton or St. John's, does anybody here honestly believe they'd say Creighton?

Keep in mind, we've seen Nova fans pack the Garden the past couple years and really help attendance. Nova is close to the Garden, but SJU is right there. You're never going to have Creighton or Xavier fans turn out like that due to their locations.

No thanks

[LMS]

Keep in mind, we've seen Nova fans pack the Garden the past couple years and really help attendance. Nova is close to the Garden, but SJU is right there. You're never going to have Creighton or Xavier fans turn out like that due to their locations.

Wow, just wow. Have you been to the big east tournament any of the past five seasons? I have. And thousands and thousands of Creighton fans have.

I am relatively certain that Creighton fans bought more tickets than any school had sold in the history of the event.

Understandably, we aren't going to have much of a walk up gate like a local school would, but I think the big east office is pretty content with thousands of Creighton fans buying all session tickets months before the event actually occurs.

[DudeAnon]

Keep in mind, we've seen Nova fans pack the Garden the past couple years and really help attendance. Nova is close to the Garden, but SJU is right there. You're never going to have Creighton or Xavier fans turn out like that due to their locations.

Wow, just wow. Have you been to the big east tournament any of the past five seasons? I have. And thousands and thousands of Creighton fans have.

I am relatively certain that Creighton fans bought more tickets than any school had sold in the history of the event.

Understandably, we aren't going to have much of a walk up gate like a local school would, but I think the big east office is pretty content with thousands of Creighton fans buying all session tickets months before the event actually occurs.

I know Creighton fans showed up big when Dougie was playing. Not sure about the following years.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I think the best thing possible for the conference would be for the top 5 to look like this 5 years from now:

1. Georgetown
2. St. John's
3. Nova
4. DePaul
5. Marquette

Yes, C7 bias but I'd have a hard time seeing why that wouldn't be true. Nova has established themselves as a blue blood and need to remain top 3. The other 4 are all sleeping giants (with the possible exception of DePaul) in major media markets with large alumni bases. Their ceiling are extremely high. As much as GTMO likes Creighton, it'd be bad for a team like them to be at the very top every year.

If you asked Fox right now who they would rather be #1 next year, Creighton or St. John's, does anybody here honestly believe they'd say Creighton?

Keep in mind, we've seen Nova fans pack the Garden the past couple years and really help attendance. Nova is close to the Garden, but SJU is right there. You're never going to have Creighton or Xavier fans turn out like that due to their locations.

I get the argument about media markets, etc., but I think think it’s silly to openly root for a large market team over a small market team. If that is the basis for your argument then why Gtown at #1 when they are in the 4th largest market (maybe even 5th if you factor SHU in metro NY). Is Hoya Paranoia even a thing anymore? That was 30 years ago. Is that a better story nationally than underdog Butler and 2 straight championship appearances? If X becomes the premier program in OH and Butler the top program in IN isn’t that just as big as the rebirth of SJU and DePaul? Those states are filled with hoops enthusiasts and great programs.

I concede that a good SJU means more advertising $ in NYC where there are more eyes. But if SJU is in the top 25 and #3 Butler, and/or #5 Creighton are coming to town for a BE tilt, don’t you think it’ll be just as exciting or more so than an unranked G’town? 5 years ago G’town or Marq coming to Cintas might have been a hot ticket but today it’s Nova or Butler. Among Nova fans VU v SHU or PC has moved the needle much more than the G’town games. It creates more rivalries and storylines among all fan bases.

I think the key is that collectively we all just need to keep improving. One year it may be PC, the next CU, the next SJU. In the oBE what I loved is that whether it was MU, L’ville, Cuse, UConn, or ND you had 8-9 dates on your calendar circled that you were not going to miss a second of action. Cuse and UConn were both small markets but their successes certainly didn’t hurt the conference, while some large market teams struggled.

[adoraz]

I think the best thing possible for the conference would be for the top 5 to look like this 5 years from now:

1. Georgetown
2. St. John's
3. Nova
4. DePaul
5. Marquette

Yes, C7 bias but I'd have a hard time seeing why that wouldn't be true. Nova has established themselves as a blue blood and need to remain top 3. The other 4 are all sleeping giants (with the possible exception of DePaul) in major media markets with large alumni bases. Their ceiling are extremely high. As much as GTMO likes Creighton, it'd be bad for a team like them to be at the very top every year.

If you asked Fox right now who they would rather be #1 next year, Creighton or St. John's, does anybody here honestly believe they'd say Creighton?

Keep in mind, we've seen Nova fans pack the Garden the past couple years and really help attendance. Nova is close to the Garden, but SJU is right there. You're never going to have Creighton or Xavier fans turn out like that due to their locations.

Eventually all of you (many have already) are going to have to come to terms with the fact that Providence is not going away under Cooley, Recruiting is at a high level and that was before the practice facility even opens. It opens in 2 months btw.

These are not my projections. I'm simply stating the best case scenario, which is very unrealistic. Realistically speaking I expect Providence to be Top 5 if not better for most of the next 5 years.

[adoraz]

Keep in mind, we've seen Nova fans pack the Garden the past couple years and really help attendance. Nova is close to the Garden, but SJU is right there. You're never going to have Creighton or Xavier fans turn out like that due to their locations.

Wow, just wow. Have you been to the big east tournament any of the past five seasons? I have. And thousands and thousands of Creighton fans have.

I am relatively certain that Creighton fans bought more tickets than any school had sold in the history of the event.

Understandably, we aren't going to have much of a walk up gate like a local school would, but I think the big east office is pretty content with thousands of Creighton fans buying all session tickets months before the event actually occurs.

I've been to all 5 Tournaments despite the Johnnies being irrelevant for all but one year (a first round exit). I've been to all 5 because I live in NYC. If I lived elsewhere I wouldn't be able to go that often. I always buy second hand tickets off Stubhub.

I don't see how what I posted is controversial? What do you think the attendance for Nova vs Jays fans the last few years was? Wasn't our first year the WORST in terms of attendance (with Creighton and their NPOY at the top), and last year our best both in terms of total attendance and the finals? Creighton was in the finals that first year and couldn't sell it out. Maybe things would be different if that happened in year 6 or 7, but that's speculation.

Creighton fans obviously do a great job with attendance given their location, but there's absolutely no comparison in the number of Nova fans vs Creighton fans there. I also think most the east coast teams outperformed Creighton the last couple years, but I could be wrong.

As for your quote about Creighton fans buying more tickets, I'm not sure about that. I doubt that accounts for second hand sales, because I've never been surveyed on my team preference whenever I buy off Stubhub. I just know there were far more Nova fans there the past few years. If you have a link I'd be interested in reading about it, though.

[gtmoBlue]

What began as Adoraz's "Best Case scenario" with

adoraz wrote:
I think the best thing possible for the conference would be for the top 5 to look like this 5 years from now:

1. Georgetown
2. St. John's
3. Nova
4. DePaul
5. Marquette

Has devolved into a attendance pissing match. Gumby nailed it when he stated that a ranked Butler or Creighton would draw at MSG. The segue into who brings what to the BET is a diversion. Who cares as long as the BET is sold out.

Georgetown, St Johns, DePaul, Marquette ( sleeping giants (with the possible exception of DePaul) in major media markets with large alumni bases. Their ceiling are extremely high. ) Perhaps the move the "interest needle" a bit if they have a good season, but that would primarily affect tv viewing. I fail to see the implied shift of national perception and increased school respect. That takes 4-5 years (see Villanova example). If Gtwn or St Johns has a good year...great, but 1 year does not a trend make. Now, if the schools which have been good over these last 4-5 years continue to be good and/or improve ...

1 Xavier
2 Creighton
3 Providence
4 Villanova
5 Butler

now you're talking noteworthy, needle moving, and trendsetting. Given what we've seen from the "old school 3" and DePaul over the last 5 years...I can easily envision them continuing to muddle and to underachieve these next 5 years.

As for this...

Adoraz quote: Also, just wanted to point out that a lot of people here seem to think that one team's success means another team's failure. That is absolutely not true. Yes, obviously the Big East regular season rankings will be impacted, but that's it. We are not a conference of Top 25 teams with limited space at the top. Every single team, with the exception of Nova, can improve their OOC performance. If Creighton, for example, has a Top 10 year OOC next year it is not going to cost anyone in the conference a bid. It will do the opposite and help the conference out significantly.

Now, if Creighton goes 7-5 OOC and then goes 16-2 in conference that'd be a bad thing (even though they'd play themselves into a bid, so not THAT bad). The conference is way too strong for that to happen, though.

Was not talking ooc nor NCAA bids. Talking strictly if your old school teams rise, then one or more of Nova, X, Butler, Prov, Cr8n have to fall in the conference standings, period. Most schedule to have successful OOC seasons and that should not change. But if Gtwn goes 15-3, StJ goes 14-4, and Marq goes 13-5 some of the current top tier MUST fall. If only StJ and Gtwn rise, still 2 teams gotta fall back to the pack. With 10 tens you can't have a gaggle of teams btwn 13 and 16 wins. My original question was..."who falls?"