Next Year.

[Red Rooster]

I'd say 70% chance he is eligible. Is that overly optimistic? Probably. However, SJU insiders seem cautiously optimistic and they know more about this individual case than anyone on here. In the past they haven't fed us BS/false hope, so I believe them. Also, I read that if he isn't eligible, SJU plans to hire a lawyer to try to get the decision reversed. We saw last year that some teams like NCSU were able to overturn NCAA decisions after fighting.

I understand people being skeptical, but saying there's no chance whatsoever seems misguided (and in some cases, biased).

The NCSU one that you're referring to is one where the kid took a summer school class at Ohio St. Hardly the same thing at all. Has there been a single case like Heron since they stopped doing the hardship waivers before the 2015-16 season where the kid was immediately eligible? I sure don't remember that at all. This would be a massive change in the course of things. I just don't see the NCAA wanting to have hardship waivers back as a normal situation, and really it's got to be all or nothing.

And frankly, I don't see what grounds SJU would have to sue to try to get him immediately eligible. The rules have been hard and fast here.

I never said the NCSU case was the same thing. Just that it was a recent NCAA decision that was overturned. My point there was that SJU will not just roll over and accept a "no" decision here. Worst case, they'll receive a no decision, fight it, and we'll get ready for Round 2.

As I said, the insiders close to the school know more than any of us here about this case (including you), and they're cautiously optimistic. They also have NCAA and Big East contacts involved with this. Does that mean he'll be eligible? Of course not, so take it FWIW. If it wasn't for them, then I wouldn't be optimistic at all, but I trust their judgement and the knowledge that they have. We don't know all the details here, so I'll trust those who do.

I won't attempt to argue the specifics of the case and prior examples. I just know that the NCAA is unpredictable and complicated, and I assume the SJU insiders have done their research on this. Again, I understand not believing he'll be eligible. But I'd bet that he will be.

Be careful about overemphasizing what the "insiders" are hearing. This is different than hearing about a recruit in regards to St. John's. I have some info on the same material, and they're just going by what they're hearing from sources who are extremely close to the situation. I expect those persons to be confident, but that doesn't mean it'll come to pass. We're still talking about the NCAA (as, you stated they are "unpredictable" and "complicated").

I won't put any percentage on what may come of Heron's hearing, as we're dealing with the NCAA. I just know some people are confident about Heron's waiver. I'm not confident the NCAA will grant Heron immediate eligibility, but I think the wise choice would be to allow him to play in '18-'19. I'm sure we'll hear something in either September or October.

[adoraz]

The NCSU one that you're referring to is one where the kid took a summer school class at Ohio St. Hardly the same thing at all. Has there been a single case like Heron since they stopped doing the hardship waivers before the 2015-16 season where the kid was immediately eligible? I sure don't remember that at all. This would be a massive change in the course of things. I just don't see the NCAA wanting to have hardship waivers back as a normal situation, and really it's got to be all or nothing.

And frankly, I don't see what grounds SJU would have to sue to try to get him immediately eligible. The rules have been hard and fast here.

I never said the NCSU case was the same thing. Just that it was a recent NCAA decision that was overturned. My point there was that SJU will not just roll over and accept a "no" decision here. Worst case, they'll receive a no decision, fight it, and we'll get ready for Round 2.

As I said, the insiders close to the school know more than any of us here about this case (including you), and they're cautiously optimistic. They also have NCAA and Big East contacts involved with this. Does that mean he'll be eligible? Of course not, so take it FWIW. If it wasn't for them, then I wouldn't be optimistic at all, but I trust their judgement and the knowledge that they have. We don't know all the details here, so I'll trust those who do.

I won't attempt to argue the specifics of the case and prior examples. I just know that the NCAA is unpredictable and complicated, and I assume the SJU insiders have done their research on this. Again, I understand not believing he'll be eligible. But I'd bet that he will be.

Be careful about overemphasizing what the "insiders" are hearing. This is different than hearing about a recruit in regards to St. John's. I have some info on the same material, and they're just going by what they're hearing from sources who are extremely close to the situation. I expect those persons to be confident, but that doesn't mean it'll come to pass. We're still talking about the NCAA (as, you stated they are "unpredictable" and "complicated").

I won't put any percentage on what may come of Heron's hearing, as we're dealing with the NCAA. I just know some people are confident about Heron's waiver. I'm not confident the NCAA will grant Heron immediate eligibility, but I think the wise choice would be to allow him to play in '18-'19. I'm sure we'll hear something in either September or October.

Very fair. I don't know how much the insiders know. I'm not sure if they have NCAA sources for example giving them reason for optimism. I just trust the posters and can't remember them ever being intentionally misleading.

But yes, with the NCAA anything can happen. This is different from a recruit as you said, so putting a percent on it isn't a great idea. I'll just say 51% he'll be eligible IMO.

[stever20]

I think the reason why I wouldn't be so optimistic is that what is being asked represents a total sea change from how the NCAA has been opporating these last 3 seasons.

Frankly, I don't think there would be a way for St John's to really appeal a no decision. It's not like there's been a precident set where someone was allowed to play in this situation. So not really sure what grounds they would have for an appeal.

Also, I think the look towards immediate eligiblity as a whole for transfers took a major hit with the Rice report a few months ago. If they were saying to go towards immediate eligibility for transfers I'd be far more optimisitc for these waivers(this isn't only one- I know Wichita has one as well) being granted.

All in all, it would be a major surprise IMO for the waiver to be granted. Do I need to remind you of the shock that Spellman wasn't eligible 2 years ago with Nova? And that IMO had far more of a case of being granted as it was a new rule applied.

[NJRedman]

I'll let you have the last word after this since I know you can't help yourself.

1) The point of my ranking of priorities was not religion the point was family should come before basketball. Just personal opinion has nothing to do with the NCAA rules just explaining why I think that waiver doesn't make sense to me. And why even if it would benefit Georgetown and we got a player eligible early ( as we actually did years ago with Julian Vaughn) I would still think that I'd rather the player take the time to be with their family and put basketball on the back burner while they deal with their school work and their family.

2) As for the 3.0 GPA rule. Yeah I wanted that to help my team. My issue with the sick family member waiver is that I think the players should be spending their time differently if they have a sick family member not that I think transfer shouldn't be able to happen. If Heron was applying for that waiver or a Graduate transfer waiver I'd be fine with it. Heck I'd be fine if they removed the year in residence restriction completely no matter what. I could care less about Heron becoming immediately eligible. I'm just expressing my personal opinion that 1) I'm not a fan of that type of waiver in the context of the current transfer rules and 2) I don't think Heron fits the criteria of the waiver he's applying for.

3) I could not care less who St. John's has on their roster. St. John's will still do nothing next year even if Heron is eligible. No post play and no coaching, and a culture of losing.

Look at this childish passive aggressive pansy ass BS. hahaha

"I'm going to say what I want then i'm not going to listen to what you have to say!"

[gtmoBlue]

Hey, HEY! Yepper... childish- chk; passive-aggressive- chk; pansy assed- chk. Yep that's chapter 3 in my online handbook. One of the more consistent fallback message board moves, ranks below "circular logic loops". Classic job Adoraz.

[adoraz]

Hey, HEY! Yepper... childish- chk; passive-aggressive- chk; pansy assed- chk. Yep that's chapter 3 in my online handbook. One of the more consistent fallback message board moves, ranks below "circular logic loops". Classic job Adoraz.

Huh? Assuming that wasn't supposed to be directed at me?

[GumbyDamnit!]

Man this thread has been hijacked to a 24/7 Mustafa Heron debate. We about done here with this dead horse beating? Can we get back to some team trash talking. You know stuff like “Howard can’t hold Ponds jock,” and “Paschall’s gonna dunk on Krampilj like he dunks donuts in his chocolate milk,” and “Butler, naturally will finish in last place just like they are picked to every year,” and “DePaul will make it to the F4 again before X makes one.”

Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen...

[stever20]

Man this thread has been hijacked to a 24/7 Mustafa Heron debate. We about done here with this dead horse beating? Can we get back to some team trash talking. You know stuff like “Howard can’t hold Ponds jock,” and “Paschall’s gonna dunk on Krampl like he dunks donuts in his chocolate milk,” and “Butler, naturally will finish in last place just like they are picked to every year,” and “DePaul will make it to the F4 again before X makes one.”

Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen...

You mean something like Nova didn't get Travis, they're not going to be as good as hoped next year?

[adoraz]

Man this thread has been hijacked to a 24/7 Mustafa Heron debate. We about done here with this dead horse beating? Can we get back to some team trash talking. You know stuff like “Howard can’t hold Ponds jock,” and “Paschall’s gonna dunk on Krampilj like he dunks donuts in his chocolate milk,” and “Butler, naturally will finish in last place just like they are picked to every year,” and “DePaul will make it to the F4 again before X makes one.”

Thanks, I’ll hang up and listen...

This board isn't very active to begin with, and in the off-season it's nearly 100% dead. The last post on this board that didn't involve Heron was on Tuesday lol. If we weren't talking about Heron, there just wouldn't be any posts at all.

During the last few off-seasons we spent a lot of time talking about conference realignment, which is dead right now. Hey, at least if we have a terrible year we know next year's off-season will be flooded with threads about expansion.

As for next year, Heron is essentially the only thing not set in stone, so that makes his case interesting to discuss. Also, us SJU fans I think are the hungriest of anybody in the league. Sucking for this long while also having reason for optimism (sorry DePaul) will do that to a fan base.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for this board to be more active with more topics. It's really boring right now. I'd even welcome a Stever topic about how bad the league will be next year.

[adoraz]

I think the reason why I wouldn't be so optimistic is that what is being asked represents a total sea change from how the NCAA has been opporating these last 3 seasons.

Frankly, I don't think there would be a way for St John's to really appeal a no decision. It's not like there's been a precident set where someone was allowed to play in this situation. So not really sure what grounds they would have for an appeal.

Also, I think the look towards immediate eligiblity as a whole for transfers took a major hit with the Rice report a few months ago. If they were saying to go towards immediate eligibility for transfers I'd be far more optimisitc for these waivers(this isn't only one- I know Wichita has one as well) being granted.

All in all, it would be a major surprise IMO for the waiver to be granted. Do I need to remind you of the shock that Spellman wasn't eligible 2 years ago with Nova? And that IMO had far more of a case of being granted as it was a new rule applied.

Ok, so as I stated my last few posts I won't try to debate NCAA logic because frankly it's hard to debate something so illogical. I don't know much about this, so I am more inclined to side with posters on Redmen who are close to the situation and don't mislead us. I still believe this is a gray issue and not a definite "no".

BUT I'm bored and you know more about the history of the issue than I do, so sure I'll listen.

So I understand the arguments against him playing, but 2 things:
1. This seems like a wayyyyyyyyy more legitimate case than the big majority of hardship waivers. It was eliminated because it was being abused, correct? Sure, it may not technically be life threatening, but it'd be really tough to look at the issue as Heron abusing the system. It's obvious what his intentions are. He is not simply transferring because he's home sick, wants to go to a better team, wants more playing time, etc. None of that makes sense here. He is leaving an excellent team where he got all the playing time he needed. He's also leaving on seemingly great terms.
2. How many legit hardship cases (or at least semi-legit, like this one) have there been over the past few years? They are extremely rare, no? I don't think there would be many comparable cases to this, if any, in recent years.