History of the NIT and the NCAA Tournament

[billyjack]

Love the "Adam's Hats" store next door to MSG. And we're not talking Lids ballcaps... those must have been fedoras.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Love the "Adam's Hats" store next door to MSG. And we're not talking Lids ballcaps... those must have been fedoras.

Legend has it that a young Jack McCoy was Adam’s last customer before The Old Garden was torn down in 1968.

The New Garden opened on February 11, 1968 and a month later, hosted their first National Invitation Tournament.

March 16, 1968 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT First Round • Dayton beats West Virginia 87-68. Attendance: 16,127
March 19, 1968 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Quarterfinal • Dayton beats Fordham 61- 60. Attendance: 18,683
March 21, 1968 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Semifinal • Dayton beats Notre Dame 76-74 in OT. Attendance: 19,500
March 23, 1968 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Championship Game • Dayton beats Kansas 61-48. Attendance: 19,008

The New Garden has a 19,812-seat capacity for basketball. The Old Garden had a capacity of about 17,500 for basketball.

March 15, 1962 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT First Round • Dayton beats Wichita State 79-71. Attendance: 13,895
March 17, 1962 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Quarterfinal • Dayton beats Houston 94-77. Attendance: 12,308
March 22, 1962 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Semifinal • Dayton beats Loyola-Chicago 98-82. Attendance: 17,326
March 24, 1962 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Championship Game: Dayton beats St. John’s 73-67. Attendance: 16,037

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

People today don't give enough credit to the value of an NIT bid in the era before UCLA began to dominate. Back then, the NIT champ was usually a ranked team. Until the late 50s, the urban Catholics especially, routinely chose to play in the NIT over the NCAAs. If you just look at NCAA bids, you would never realize that teams like DePaul, Seton Hall, Duquesne, LaSalle, and Dayton were elite powerhouse programs during the first 2 decades of postseason play (the polls from this era will confirm this, which is why schools like LaSalle, and Duquesne still rank surprisingly high on those various all time lists despite doing little the last 40 years). The appeal of playing in The Garden, especially for teams in the northeast, and Great Lakes, was far more attractive than going to play some football school in a podunk town, where the refs were likely to screw you.

Excellent post, Herodotus. In the 1950’s, 13 of the Top 40 teams were Catholic schools:

The ESPN/Sagarin All-Time Rankings (1937-2009)

The Top 40 Programs of Each Decade - The 1950's:

7. Dayton
13. Duquesne
14. Saint Louis
17. Notre Dame
15. La Salle
22. San Francisco
24. Holy Cross
29. St. John’s
33. Niagara
34. Xavier
37. DePaul
39. Seattle
40. Fordham

Year - NIT Champions and • Runners-up

1950 - CCNY • Bradley
1951 - Brigham Young • Dayton
1952 - La Salle • Dayton
1953 - Seton Hall • St. John's
1954 - Holy Cross • Duquesne
1955 - Duquesne • Dayton
1956 - Louisville • Dayton
1957 - Bradley • Memphis State
1958 - Xavier • Dayton
1959 - St. John's • Bradley

I haven’t taken the time to research this, but I suspect that if you examine the NIT and NCAA Tournament fields in the 1950’s, you will find that nearly all of the Eastern and Midwestern Catholic schools chose the NIT over the NCAA Tournament in the 1950’s. Because of the NIT’s rich tradition, and the many Catholic schools who played in, and won the NIT, the National Invitational Tournament had more prestige for Catholic schools than for the general population, and had that prestige for longer into the 1960’s than for the general population.
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When did the NCAA Tournament become more prestigious than the NIT ?

There will never be a consensus on the exact year, but 1955 gets my vote.

A corollary to this contention is that Seton Hall and Holy Cross were the de facto college basketball National Champions in 1953 and 1954.

Year – NCAA Tournament Champions and • Runners-up

1950 - CCNY (24-5) • Bradley
1951 - Kentucky (32-2) • Kansas State
1952 - Kansas (28-3) • St. John's
1953 - Indiana (23-3) • Kansas
1954 - La Salle (26-4) • Bradley
1955 - San Francisco (28-1) • LaSalle
1956 - San Francisco (29-0) • Iowa
1957 - North Carolina (32-0) • Kansas
1958 - Kentucky (23-6) • Seattle
1959 - California (25-4) • West Virginia

1955 Final AP Men's Basketball Poll

1. San Francisco (24-1)

1956 Final AP Men's Basketball Poll

1. San Francisco (25-0)

University of San Francisco - Wikipedia

The University of San Francisco (USF) is a Jesuit Catholic university founded in 1855 as St. Ignatius Academy.

San Francisco Dons men's basketball - Wikipedia

The basketball team has won three national titles: the 1949 NIT under Pete Newell, and the 1955 and 1956 NCAA Championships.

NCAA Violations and Self-Imposed Death Penalty

The Dons remained an elite program well into the early 1980s, perennially ranked in the Top 20, and had captured six consecutive conference titles from 1977–82. However, San Francisco's success on the court came at a price. The NCAA placed the Dons on probation two times in the late 1970s for booster/alumni interference with the program and recruiting improprieties by coaches.

On July 29, 1982, school president Rev. John Lo Schiavo - a lifelong basketball enthusiast - announced that he was shutting down the basketball program — the first time a Division I university had voluntarily shut down a major sport under such circumstances.

[herodotus]

Wow, Dayton lost in the NIT final 5 times in the 50s, before finally winning it in 1962. That one in 1958 had to sting. The Flyers topped off their list of runner ups by losing to UCLA in the 1967 NCAA Final.

Another factor in certain teams favoring the NIT in the 40s and early 50s was that many of the Catholic teams had black, and Jewish players, who preferred NYC to playing in some podunk town full of bigots in the NCAAs.

[herodotus]

A corollary to this contention is that Seton Hall and Holy Cross were the de facto college basketball National Champions in 1953 and 1954.

Yeah, you can make a very strong case for Holy Cross being the champ over LaSalle. This is really the last year you could do that. The 55 Duquesne team could likely have made the NCAA Final (they beat finalist LaSalle on a neutral court during the season), but they weren't going to beat USF. After that, you had a string of powerful NCAA titlists, and the NIT began to fade into the background.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Wow, Dayton lost in the NIT final 5 times in the 50s, before finally winning it in 1962. That one in 1958 had to sting.

It really did, but at least it wasn't a national championship game, and it did generate an interesting story:

1958 Final AP Men's Basketball Poll Top 20

11. Dayton
NR - Xavier

1958 National Invitation Tournament - Wikipedia

1958 NIT Champions to be Honored February 10th – Xavier University - January 17, 2008

The 1957-58 Musketeers became the first school from Ohio to win a national championship in basketball by winning the 1958 National Invitation Tournament. Led by first-year head coach Jim McCafferty, the Musketeers defeated Niagara, Bradley, and St. Bonaventure to reach the NIT championship game at Madison Square Garden in New York. In the final, Xavier defeated rival #11 Dayton 78-74 in overtime. Sport magazine called Xavier's Cinderella run "one of the greatest upsets in basketball history".

Xavier was seeded last in the tournament after losing 10 of its last 15 regular season games after starting 10-1. Four Musketeers were named to the All-Tournament Team, including MVP Hank Stein, after XU knocked off the highly-favored Flyers.

March 18, 1958 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Quarterfinal • Dayton beats Fordham 74-70. Attendance: 12,160
March 20, 1958 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Semifinal • Dayton beats St. John’s 80-56. Attendance: 15,834
March 22, 1958 • Madison Sq. Garden • NIT Championship Game: Xavier beats Dayton 78-74 in OT. Attendance: 12,020

NIT Historical Facts – USA Today - March 25, 2002

17. In 1958, Xavier lost 10 of its final 15 regular-season games after a 10-1 start and the NIT asked the Musketeers to give back its NIT bid. Xavier, however, said "no" and went on to win the 1958 NIT title despite being seeded last under first-year head coach Jim McCafferty.

18. Garry Roggenburk, the leading scorer for Dayton's 1962 NIT titlist, went on to become a lefthanded pitcher for five seasons later in the decade with the Minnesota Twins, Boston Red Sox, and Seattle Pilots.

19. The final NIT at The Old Garden in 1967 belonged to a so-called "small" school, Southern Illinois, sparked by a smooth swingman named Walt Frazier. Frazier wasn't Clyde yet, but the future Knick was well on his way.

1958 NCAA University Division Basketball Tournament - Wikipedia

The 1958 NCAA University Division Basketball Tournament involved 24 schools playing in single-elimination play to determine the national champion of men's NCAA Division I college basketball.

Kentucky, coached by Adolph Rupp, won the national title with an 84–72 victory in the final game over Seattle. Elgin Baylor of Seattle was named the tournament's Most Outstanding Player.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

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A Salute to the Big East’s College Basketball National Champions and Runners-Up

For those of you who accept 1955 as the year that NCAA Tournament replaced the NIT as the determinant for the National Championship, I have compiled a listing of the Big East’s college basketball National Champions and Runners-Up. Schools that have left the Big East are not eligible for my listing, but Big East schools who have won a Mythical National Championship are.

Some Long-Ago St. John’s History ... St. John’s have historically been the best team in the present Big East, with three National Championships.

St. John’s University - Wikipedia

St. John's men's basketball has won several National Championships including the 1911 Helms Athletic Foundation National Championship and the 1943 and 1944 back-to-back NIT National Championships.

Mythical National Championships – College Basketball - Wikipedia

Prior to the advent of national post-season college basketball tournaments, beginning with the National Invitation Tournament (NIT) in 1938 and the NCAA Tournament in 1939, virtually no third-party organizations selected basketball national champions. The Official NCAA Men's Basketball Records Book lists title selections of pre-tournament era teams by the Helms Athletic Foundation.

Schools that Claim Pre-NCAA Tournament Basketball Championships

Many schools claim or recognize pre-tournament era national college basketball championships by virtue of being selected by third-party selectors, such as the Helms Athletic Foundation. Not all schools recognize national championship honors bestowed by third-party selectors.

Three schools claim a national championship based on their NIT championships: DePaul (1945), Utah (1947), and San Francisco (1949).

Xavier University has also claimed to win a national championship in basketball by winning the 1958 National Invitation Tournament:

1958 NIT Champions to be Honored February 10th – Xavier University - January 17, 2008

The 1957-58 Musketeers became the first school from Ohio to win a national championship in basketball by winning the 1958 National Invitation Tournament.

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Big East’s College Basketball National Champions and Runners-Up

National Champions 1901-1937: Helms Athletic Foundation Basketball Champions - Wikipedia

1911 - St. John's

National Champions 1938 -1954: National Invitation Tournament Champions (and Runners-Up)

1943 - St. John's
1944 - St. John's
1944 - DePaul (runner-up)
1945 – DePaul

1953 - Seton Hall
1953 - St. John's (runner-up)

National Champions 1955 -2017: NCAA Division I Men's Basketball Champions (and Runners-Up) - Wikipedia

1971 – Villanova (runner-up)
1974 – Marquette (runner-up)
1977 - Marquette

1982 – Georgetown (runner-up)
1984 - Georgetown
1985 - Villanova
1985 – Georgetown (runner-up)
1989 - Seton Hall (runner-up)

2010 – Butler (runner-up)
2011 – Butler (runner-up)
2016 - Villanova

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Recall that college basketball in the old days was a lot different than it is now:

History of NCAA Basketball Rule Changes - HLOH thread

1910-1911: No coaching is allowed during the progress of the game by anybody connected with either team.
1948-1949: Coaches are now allowed to speak to players during a timeout.

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St. John's is also the all-time leader in both No. of NIT Championships won and No. of NIT Semifinal Appearances.

NIT Championships and Semifinal Appearances - Wikipedia

Total No. of NIT Championships

No. of NIT Championships - School

5 - St. John's*
4 - Bradley
3 - Dayton, Stanford

2 - BYU, Kentucky, Michigan*, Minnesota*, Long Island, Ohio State, Providence, South Carolina, Temple, Tulsa, Virginia, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
1 - Baylor, California, CCNY, Colorado, Connecticut, DePaul, Duquesne, Fresno State, George Washington, Holy Cross, Indiana, La Salle, Louisville, Marquette, Maryland, Memphis, Nebraska, North Carolina, Penn State, Princeton, Purdue, Saint Louis, San Francisco, Seton Hall, Southern Illinois, Southern Miss, St. Bonaventure, Texas, TCU, UCLA, Utah, Vanderbilt, Villanova, Wake Forest, Wichita State, Xavier

* Vacated title not included in total.
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Total No. of NIT Semifinal Appearances

No. of NIT Semifinal Appearances – School

15 – St. John's*
8 - Bradley, Dayton
7 - Duquesne, Providence
6 - Alabama, Minnesota*, Notre Dame, NYU, St. Bonaventure
5 - Army, DePaul, Minnesota*, Penn State, Temple, Villanova, West Virginia

4 - BYU, Colorado, Kentucky, Marquette, Memphis, N.C. State, Ohio State, Purdue, Saint Louis
3 - Boston College, Clemson, Florida, Georgetown, Louisville, Loyola-Chicago, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan*, Nebraska, North Carolina, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Rutgers, Seton Hall, South Carolina, Stanford, St. Joseph's, Utah, Virginia Tech, Western Kentucky
2 - Baylor, Bowling Green, Canisius, CCNY, Connecticut, Florida State, Fresno State, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Holy Cross, Indiana, Jacksonville, La Salle, Long Island, Mississippi, New Mexico, Niagara, Oklahoma, Old Dominion, Rhode Island, San Diego State, Syracuse, Tennessee, Toledo, Tulsa, UAB, Vanderbilt, Virginia, Wake Forest, Xavier
1 – Creighton and many, many others.

*Vacated appearance not included in total

My apologies to those of you who may be offended by the many references to 'Dayton', but the NIT is a legitimate topic for this board and this thread, and the History of the NIT is inextricably linked to the histories of St. John's, Bradley, and Dayton, who were regular crowd favorites at The Old Garden.

These schools helped forge the rich history and legacy of the NIT, and consequently, the NIT holds a greater value for these three schools than for most other schools. It is self-evident that schools having relatively few NIT Semifinal Appearances would not have much nostalgic interest in the tournament which formerly decided college basketball's National Champions, but that does not diminish the importance of the NIT in college basketball history.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Why expanding the NCAA tournament to 72 teams would be a big mistake - Jeff Eisenberg, The Dagger - May 17, 2018

The latest proposal from the ACC is a perfect example.

The league’s 15 men’s basketball coaches have recommended expanding the NCAA tournament from 68 teams to 72, commissioner John Swofford told reporters after the ACC’s spring meetings in Amelia Island, Florida. The goal would be to have a second First Four like the original in Dayton but in another part of the country.

There’s no mystery why coaches would want to expand the NCAA tournament field by four teams and make it easier for teams to secure a bid. Not only is making the NCAA tournament often a barometer for job security for high-major college basketball coaches, it also often triggers six- or seven-figure contract incentive bonuses.

What reason do fans of power-conference teams have to pay attention from November to February if they already know their school is all but guaranteed of an NCAA bid?

Eight power-conference teams already made the field of 68 this past season with .500 or worse records in league play. Add any more spots to the field, and that bar will only get lower.

If anything, the NCAA tournament should go back to 64 teams, but you’ll be hard-pressed to find any coaches willing to support that plan.

After all, an expanded NCAA tournament means more job security even if it isn’t necessarily good for the sport as a whole.

As a Big East fan, I would stick with a 68-team field. It seems to work, it isn’t going back to 64 teams, and adding 4 more teams will not benefit the Big East as much as it would benefit the football schools. I strongly suspect that the Big East will average about 6 NCAA Tournament invitations per year over the long-term, with occasional 5 or 7 invitation years. That’s as good as a 10-team conference can hope for, as a few BE teams need to absorb a lot of conference losses in order for the Big East to get 7 teams into the NCAA tournament – whether its field is 68 or 72 teams.

[Edrick]

Are we seriously having 500 word posts about the NIT?

[billyjack]

The ACC is run by dipshits.

Whatever they propose typically blows up in their faces.
The conference is filled with teams that have barely done shit for decades... and-or anything they *have* done is tainted by rampant cheating or hookers or whatever.