Add Dayton and VCU

[gtmoBlue]

Who was the joker that always argued that the Big East should add St. Bonaventure, solely to be the bottom feeder of the league, but also to help prop up the top?

Joker? I beg to differ. The member whose brilliant suggestions for improving and growing our beloved BEast, is none other than my Esteemed Colleague, the great JP Schmack. His sage advise regarding BEast expansion would be wise to
follow.

If we were to add 1-2 new DePauls, the top and middle would gain 2 or 4 wins. There would be no talk of Butler, Marquette, Providence as bubble teams. Win 10 and you're in...the only bubble team would be #8 in the standings.

[DudeAnon]

Who was the joker that always argued that the Big East should add St. Bonaventure, solely to be the bottom feeder of the league, but also to help prop up the top?

Joker? I beg to differ. The member whose brilliant suggestions for improving and growing our beloved BEast, is none other than my Esteemed Colleague, the great JP Schmack. His sage advise regarding BEast expansion would be wise to
follow.

If we were to add 1-2 new DePauls, the top and middle would gain 2 or 4 wins. There would be no talk of Butler, Marquette, Providence as bubble teams. Win 10 and you're in...the only bubble team would be #8 in the standings.

Adding bad schools to boost middling schools is Marvin Lewis levels of mediocrity. Currently Georgetown is not very good, but they are a big brand and still hold a lot of value to the Big East. Last night Patrick Ewing had a funny little clip where he was mocking his player for taking a bad shot. If that was St. Bonaventure noone would care. But because its Ewing and Georgetown it got an article on Deadspin.com And the clip has been seen almost 500k times.
https://twitter.com/BarstoolBigCat/stat ... 4050267137
https://deadspin.com/patrick-ewing-gets ... 1821740574

Add the best programs/brands available. There are really only 4 worth discussing (and only 2 that would really be home-runs). UConn, Gonzaga, VCU and Dayton.

[UD Flyer Fanatic]

Dude- I'm starting to think you miss us a little having made your list of 4! Would a group hug be wrong?

Coach Grant is getting some heat from the base to be sure, but Archie left the cupboards a bit bare to be honest. We're still packing the Arena with butts. Were hoping Coach Grant's recruiting ability raises the program. He had an unexpected late open scholly this year and was able to sign a servicable guard. He had only one open 2019 scholly (so far) and got a commit from a top 100 guard (Dwayne Cohill). So we may have the makings of a competitive team next year. Add Kostas- a complete project- and we're crossing our fingers.

[DudeAnon]

Dude- I'm starting to think you miss us a little having made your list of 4! Would a group hug be wrong?

Yes.

I am just calling it how I see it. The fact is that the rest of the mid-majors are trash.

[gtmoBlue]

I give you the example of Creighton.

Midmajor:
small market-big gym
recruits 2 - 3 star players, with an rare 4 star thrown in
competitive at the midmajor level, with an occasional big upset of a top tier team
competitive with middle level and below majors

now:
small market-big gym-national TV
recruits 4 star players, with an occasional 5 star, 3 star, and walkons
Transfer U - for recycling top tier transfers
competitive with all but the very top elite

It doesn't matter if the BE brings in Top Teams (Zags, Duke), Middle Teams (UConn, S'cuse, ND, VCU, Dayton, Richmond, St Marys, Vandy, others) or low teams (SLU, da Bonnies, St Thomas Aquinas, WF, etc).

Top teams will not see a prestige dropoff and benefit from the top competition. Top and some middle teams would see a dropoff in initial dollar revenue, but that would be made up over successive new TV contracts and BEDN increases. Once in the top Basketball conference (BE) middle and bottom teams will begin to receive press, acclaim, and increases in exposure (if needed). Recruiting would be maintained for top and middle teams and would increase for bottom teams.

Whomever eventually joins the BE will benefit. Adding top teams will push down the middle and bottom (DePaul will never see light). It will be reminiscent of the old BE that those at the bottom will stay at the bottom. It will take an exceptional year for middle teams to rise and join the top tier. Teams such as St Johns, Prov, etc will be back in that old barrell of fighting to stay above water...except they can still make the dance with 10 wins. Bottom teams will console themselves that they play in the best basketball league and have much more money, as they will only rarely make the dance. As JP said (paraphrasing) 'adding to the bottom raises the middle and top.' Most of the current membership will dance regularly and everybody's happy.

[gtmoBlue]

I give you the example of Creighton.

Midmajor:
small market-big gym
recruits 2 - 3 star players, with an rare 4 star thrown in
competitive at the midmajor level, with an occasional big upset of a top tier team
competitive with middle level and below majors

now:
small market-big gym-national TV
recruits 4 star players, with an occasional 5 star, 3 star, and walkons
Transfer U - for recycling top tier transfers
competitive with all but the very top elite

It doesn't matter if the BE brings in Top Teams (Zags, Duke), Middle Teams (UConn, S'cuse, ND, VCU, Dayton, Richmond, St Marys, Vandy, others) or low teams (SLU, da Bonnies, St Thomas Aquinas, WF, etc).

Top teams will not see a prestige dropoff and benefit from the top competition. Top and some middle teams would see a dropoff in initial dollar revenue, but that would be made up over successive new TV contracts and BEDN increases. Once in the top Basketball conference (BE) middle and bottom teams will begin to receive press, acclaim, and increases in exposure (if needed). Recruiting would be maintained for top and middle teams and would increase for bottom teams.

Whomever eventually joins the BE will benefit. Adding top teams will push down the middle and bottom (DePaul will never see light). It will be reminiscent of the old BE that those at the bottom will stay at the bottom. It will take an exceptional year for middle teams to rise and join the top tier. Teams such as St Johns, Prov, etc will be back in that old barrell of fighting to stay above water...except they can still make the dance with 10 wins. Bottom teams will console themselves that they play in the best basketball league, as they will only rarely make the dance. As JP said (paraphrasing) 'adding to the bottom raises the middle and top.' Most of the current membership will dance regularly and everybody's happy.

[Xudash]

Is there an echo in here?

Seriously, it matters which teams are added.

Never dilute by pulling up weak programs.

Only bring in programs that have all key program attributes in place (facilities, school prestige, market/location (that presents a fit with existing members), et al).

Any program that has all the key elements in place is one administration and one coaching hire away from tracking in the right direction. It isn't a given that DePaul, as an example, especially with its new facility, will be in the basement forever. Watch out if they get an AD with a clue.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Anthony Grant has a track record of failure and that doesn't seem to of changed as they are 6-7 right now.

UD was beginning to make a little headway under Archie Miller, but it is firmly back into a position of mediocrity with Grant.

Gentlemen - you’re obviously entitled to your opinions, but I would be inclined to let any experienced head coach get more than 13 games under his belt at a new school before drawing any conclusions about his abilities, particularly when he inherits a depleted roster from his predecessor. Perhaps you missed my Anthony Grant post on the Dayton thread, on which I posted:

2016-17 HAS BEEN A GOOD SEASON FOR THE FLYERS – University of Dayton – April 3, 2017

The four Flyer seniors – Charles Cooke, Kyle Davis, Scoochie Smith, and Kendall Pollard became the winningest senior class in Dayton history with 102 wins and were the first class to go to the NCAA Tournament all four years.

Four Flyers earned All-Conference honors. Kyle Davis was named Sixth Man of the Year, Scoochie Smith was named All-Atlantic 10 First Team, Charles Cooke was named All-Atlantic 10 Second Team, and Kendall Pollard was named All-Atlantic 10 Third Team. Cooke and Kyle Davis were also on the A-10 All-Defensive Team.

One signing says Anthony Grant can keep Dayton on path charted by Archie Miller – CBS Sports – September 13, 2017

Anthony Grant’s first team at Dayton will be young -- really young.

When you have one of the most experienced teams in college hoops, as Dayton did last season, the pendulum swings the other way the next.

Six of Grant's 11 scholarship players have never played a minute of college basketball. Junior Ryan Mikesell will redshirt after two offseason hip surgeries. Dayton fans who have gotten used to constant success may have to temper expectations this season. But I wouldn't temper expectations for the future.

Next season, Xavier will be losing four seniors ==> Xavier 5-year Roster – VerbalCommits.com

Xavier 2017-18 Roster - ESPN . . . Xavier 2017-18 Stats - ESPN

6’-6”, 200-lb senior guard Trevon Bluiett - 19.8 PPG / 5.7 RPG
6’-5”, 200-lb senior guard J.P. Macura - 13.3 PPG / 4.1 RPG
6’-10”, 240-lb senior forward Kerem Kanter - 8.3 PPG / 5.1 RPG
6’-10”, 244-lb senior forward Sean O'Mara - 7.9 PPG / 3.4 RPG

That’s a total of 49.3 PPG and 18.3 RPG that will not be returning to Xavier next season - not to mention the associated experience and leadership.

Xavier’s HS Class of 2014-Basketball Targets - 247sports.com

# 39 – 4 star Trevon Bluiett
# 88 – 4 star Makinde London
# 102 – 4 star J.P. Macura
# 106 – 4 star Edmond Sumner
# 132 – 3 star Larry Austin
# 156 – 3 star Sean O'Mara

Xavier’s HS Class of 2018-Basketball Targets - 247sports.com

# 156 – 3 star Jake Walter
# 199 – 3 star Dontarius James
# 208 – 3 star Keonte Kennedy

(Plus 3 more available 2018 scholarships which have not yet been awarded.)

Next year, it will be interesting to see how Xavier fares after losing 4 seniors. BTW, some of you Xavier fans have a very unhealthy obsession about Dayton.

[pc5151]

I thought St Louis was going to back at the top of the A10 this year but having 3 players suspended ended that hope. I still think that program has Creighton type potential.

A lesser program that is worth keeping an eye on over the next few years is Duquesne. Before you laugh they have a new coach, are investing 40 mil into their on campus arena/facilities, have a ton of transfers who will be eligible next year and have access to PPG Paints Arena for big games. They aren't worth bringing to the BE now but could be in a few years.

I'm a Friar fan so my bias towards letting Uconn die in the American rules them out for me

[MarquetteRustler]

Stay at 10. 10 is the perfect number.