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Pre-season AP Top 25 is out!

#4 Villanova
#24 UConn

RV:
#32 Xavier
#39 St. John's

(#1 Gonzaga)

https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-colleg ... tball-poll

No surprises for the Big East


But it pisses me off to see how Kentucky and Duke get top-10 rankings after horrible seasons just because of their brands. Not many other teams would get the benefit of the doubt even if they "re-loaded" with new talent.

ecasadoSBU wrote:No surprises for the Big East


But it pisses me off to see how Kentucky and Duke get top-10 rankings after horrible seasons just because of their brands. Not many other teams would get the benefit of the doubt even if they "re-loaded" with new talent.

No worries. Check out the predictions of guys that KNOW what they're doing!

https://barttorvik.com/

https://kenpom.com/

Xuperman wrote:

ecasadoSBU wrote:No surprises for the Big East


But it pisses me off to see how Kentucky and Duke get top-10 rankings after horrible seasons just because of their brands. Not many other teams would get the benefit of the doubt even if they "re-loaded" with new talent.

No worries. Check out the predictions of guys that KNOW what they're doing!

https://barttorvik.com/

https://kenpom.com/

Wait a second... Bartorvik has Dayton (#119) as behind every other team in the BE--including DePaul and G'town. Where's FFlyer with a War and Peace response challenging this blatant mistake?

Xuperman wrote:

ecasadoSBU wrote:No surprises for the Big East


But it pisses me off to see how Kentucky and Duke get top-10 rankings after horrible seasons just because of their brands. Not many other teams would get the benefit of the doubt even if they "re-loaded" with new talent.

No worries. Check out the predictions of guys that KNOW what they're doing!

https://barttorvik.com/

https://kenpom.com/

Sure. But KP and Torvik do nothing to dispel the ANNUAL bias against the Big East. Every f'ing year, without fail!

However, Duke, UK, Auburn, UVA, Ark, Bama, and others get the free press, the benefit of the doubts, and their names in the streaming tickers, etc. These "beauty contestants" will have to lose a few in the non-conf in order to fall out of the polls. Meanwhile deserving BE teams such as X, StJ, and SH - who should be ranked - MUST win their hi-profile tests, just to begin to get considerations. This is the annual Big Hurdle which we are subjected to (as though the BE is a Midmajor Conf???). I call BS! There is no way that we should not have at least 3 teams each season in the pre-season rankings. Every year we have to PROVE we are a top conference and every year the Big East proves it. We've proven we are a top conference for the last 8 years running... Does it EVER end?

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2020-21 Rankings - HLOH thread (66 posts dated December 14, 2020 to March 16, 2021)

On March 16, 2021, Fieldhouse Flyer wrote:
NET RANKINGS 2020-21 – NCAA.com - Through Games on Selection Sunday, March 14, 2021

Rank • School • Conference • Overall W-L • (W-L vs. Quad 1 • W-L vs. Quad 2 • W-L vs. Quad 3 • W-L vs. Quad 4)

17 • Villanova • Big East • 16-6 • (5-3 • 4-3 • 6-0 • 1-0) ==> NCAA Tournament No. 5 Seed.
26 • Creighton • Big East • 20-8 • (7-3 • 5-3 • 4-2 • 4-0) ==> NCAA Tournament No. 5 Seed.
30 • UConn • Big East • 15-7 • (4-4 • 3-3 • 5-0 • 3-0) ==> NCAA Tournament No. 7 Seed.

57 • Seton Hall • Big East • 14-13 • (3-9 • 5-3 • 4-1 • 2-0) ==> Declined a presumed invitation to the NIT.
61 • Xavier • Big East • 13-8 • (1-4 • 5-3 • 4-1 • 3-0) ==> Declined a presumed invitation to the NIT.
64 • Georgetown • Big East • 13-12 • (3-9 • 5-1 • 4-2 • 1-0) ==> Big East Champions • NCAA Tournament No. 12 Seed.
69 • St. John's (NY) • Big East • 16-11 • (2-7 • 5-2 • 4-1 • 5-1) ==> Declined a presumed invitation to the NIT.
85 • Providence • Big East • 13-13 • (4-7 • 2-5 • 4-1 • 3-0)
95 • Marquette • Big East • 13-14 • (5-9 • 2-4 • 3-0 • 3-1)
122 • Butler • Big East • 10-15 • (2-9 • 4-4 • 2-1 • 2-1)
163 • DePaul • Big East • 5-14 • (1-6 • 2-5 • 0-3 • 2-0)

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2022 T-Rank College Basketball Projections - barttorvik.com – October 13, 2021

12. Villanova
18. Connecticut
19. Xavier
32. Seton Hall
47. Providence

65. Butler
72. Creighton
78. St. John's
95. Marquette
98. DePaul
115. Georgetown
119. Dayton

2022 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings – Ken Pomeroy – October 13, 2021

9. Villanova
21. Connecticut
26. Xavier
50. Seton Hall

51. St. John's
53. Creighton
55. Butler
76. Georgetown
84. Dayton
85. Providence
87. Marquette
140. DePaul

College basketball No. 1-358 rankings: Preseason countdown concludes with top 68 teams for 2021-22 season – Matt Norlander, CBS – October 14, 2021

3. Villanova
25. Xavier
33. UConn
37. Seton Hall
49. St. John's

55. Providence
63. Creighton
71. Dayton
83. Butler
96. Georgetown
105. Marquette
131. DePaul

Villanova tabbed to win Big East by conference coaches - Associated Press – October 19, 2021

NEW YORK (AP) Villanova has dominated the Big East over the last decade under the guidance of coach Jay Wright. The fourth-ranked Wildcats were the unanimous choice to win the conference in a preseason coaches poll released Tuesday. The team, which has won seven of the last eight regular-season titles, received all 10 first-place votes from the league's coaches. Coaches couldn't vote for their own team, and Wright picked AP No. 24 Connecticut.

1. Villanova
2. UConn
3. Xavier
4. St. John's
5. Seton Hall
6. Butler
7. Providence
8. Creighton
9. Marquette
10. Georgetown
11. DePaul

======================================================================================================================================

.
Rankings for 2021-22 – HLOH thread • Post #7 dated October 20, 2021

THE SETUP

On October 18, 2021, Xuperman wrote:
Check out the predictions of guys that KNOW what they're doing!

https://barttorvik.com/

On October 19, 2021, GumbyDamnit! wrote:
Wait a second... Barttorvik has Dayton (#119) as behind every other team in the BE--including DePaul and G'town. Where's FFlyer?

GumbyDamnit! – I don’t put much stock in preseason predictions, simply because there are too many significant unknowns about most teams. Dayton has 11 freshmen, a sophomore, and a junior this season – so no one was expecting a Top 50 team this season, but things are looking good for the Flyers during the following three seasons.

Xuperman – I very rarely take requests, but in this particular instance, my epistemic curiosity got the better of me, so I decided to Check out the predictions of guys that KNOW what they're doing! by comparing numbers from the 2019-20 season:

(1) Matt Norlander’s CBS Sports Preseason Predictions vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

(2) Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Rankings vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

I was unable to find barttovik’s preseason predictions for the 2019-20 season (as they now appear to be unavailable), but I was able find a link to barttovik’s rankings on November 9, 2019, which I will use as my basis for comparison with the NCAA NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020.
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THE DATA

Ranking every college basketball team from No. 1 to 353 for the 2019-20 season – Matt Norlander, CBS Sports – October 22, 2019

2. Kansas
8. Gonzaga

15. Providence
17. Villanova
20. Baylor
23. Seton Hall
36. Xavier
37. Dayton
45. Georgetown

52. Marquette
54. Connecticut
56. Creighton
67. Butler
87. DePaul
111. St. John's

NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball NET Rankings – WarrenNolan.com – updated Sunday March 15, 2020

1. Gonzaga • 31–2 (15–1)
2. Kansas • 27–3 (17–1)
3. Dayton • 29–2 (18–0)
5. Baylor • 26–4 (15–3)

11. Creighton • 23–7 (13–5)
13. Villanova • 24–7 (13–5)
15. Seton Hall • 21–9 (13–5)
19. Butler • 22–9 (10–8)
26. Marquette • 18–12 (8–10)
37. Providence • 19–12 (12–6)
47. Xavier • 19–13 (8–10)

60. Connecticut • 19–12 (10–8 AAC)
62. St. John's • 17–15 (5–13)
65. Georgetown • 15–17 (5–13)
86. DePaul • 15–16 (3–15)

2020 Customizable T-Rank and Tempo-Free Stats - barttorvik.com – updated Saturday November 9, 2019

5. Villanova • 1–0 (0–0)
6. Marquette • 1–0 (0–0)
9. Providence • 2–0 (0–0)
28. St. John's • 2–0 (0–0)
29. Kansas • 1–1 (0–0)
30. Butler • 2–0 (0–0)
31. Xavier • 2–0 (0–0)
34. Baylor • 1–1 (0–0)

56. Connecticut • 1–0 (0–0 AAC)
67. Gonzaga • 2–0 (0–0)
86. Seton Hall • 2–0 (0–0)
91. Dayton • 1–0 (0-0)
123. DePaul • 2–0 (0–0)
161. Creighton • 1–0 (0-0)
195. Georgetown • 2–0 (0–0)

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THE COMPARISONS

(1) Matt Norlander’s CBS Sports Preseason Predictions vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

(2) Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Rankings vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020


(1) Matt Norlander’s CBS Sports Preseason Predictions vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

Teams sorted by NET Ranking on Selection Sunday

Difference = NET Ranking on Selection Sunday - Matt Norlander’s Preseason Prediction

-7 = 1. Gonzaga – 8.
0 = 2. Kansas - 2.
-34 = 3. Dayton – 37.
-15 = 5. Baylor – 20.

-45 = 11. Creighton - 56.
-4 = 13. Villanova – 17.
-8 = 15. Seton Hall - 23.
-48 = 19. Butler – 67.
-26 = 26. Marquette - 52.
+22 = 37. Providence - 15.
+11 = 47. Xavier - 36.

+6 = 60. Connecticut – 54.
-49 = 62. St. John's – 111.
+20 = 65. Georgetown - 45.
-1 = 86. DePaul - 87.

(1) Matt Norlander’s CBS Sports Preseason Predictions vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

Teams sorted by Difference

Difference = NET Ranking on Selection Sunday - Matt Norlander’s Preseason Prediction

-49 = 62. St. John's – 111.
-48 = 19. Butler – 67.
-45 = 11. Creighton - 56.
-34 = 3. Dayton – 37.
-26 = 26. Marquette - 52.

-15 = 5. Baylor – 20.
-8 = 15. Seton Hall - 23.
-7 = 1. Gonzaga – 8.
-4 = 13. Villanova – 17.
0 = 2. Kansas - 2.
-1 = 86. DePaul - 87.
+6 = 60. Connecticut – 54.
+11 = 47. Xavier - 36.

+20 = 65. Georgetown - 45.
+22 = 37. Providence - 15.

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(2) Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Rankings vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

Teams sorted by NET Ranking on Selection Sunday

Difference = NET Ranking on Selection Sunday - Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Ranking

-66 = 1. Gonzaga - 67.
-27 = 2. Kansas - 29.
-88 = 3. Dayton - 91.
-31 = 5. Baylor – 34.

-150 = 11. Creighton -161.
+8 = 13. Villanova – 5.
-71 = 15. Seton Hall - 86.
-11 = 19. Butler – 30.
+20 = 26. Marquette – 6.
+28 = 37. Providence - 9.
+16 = 47. Xavier - 31.

+4 = 60. Connecticut - 56.
+34 = 62. St. John's – 28.
-130 = 65. Georgetown – 195.
-37 = 86. DePaul – 123.

(2) Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Rankings vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

Teams sorted by Difference

Difference = NET Ranking on Selection Sunday - Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Ranking

-150 = 11. Creighton -161.
-130 = 65. Georgetown – 195.
-88 = 3. Dayton - 91.
-71 = 15. Seton Hall - 86.
-66 = 1. Gonzaga - 67.
-37 = 86. DePaul – 123.
-31 = 5. Baylor – 34.
-27 = 2. Kansas - 29.

-11 = 19. Butler – 30.
+4 = 60. Connecticut - 56.
+8 = 13. Villanova – 5.
+16 = 47. Xavier - 31.

+20 = 26. Marquette – 6.
+28 = 37. Providence - 9.
+34 = 62. St. John's – 28.

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THE EXTREMA

(1) Matt Norlander’s CBS Sports Preseason Predictions vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

Difference = NET Ranking on Selection Sunday - Matt Norlander’s Preseason Prediction

-49 = 62. St. John's – 111.
-48 = 19. Butler – 67.
-45 = 11. Creighton - 56.
-34 = 3. Dayton – 37.
-26 = 26. Marquette - 52.

+20 = 65. Georgetown - 45.
+22 = 37. Providence - 15.

(2) Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Rankings vs. the NCAA Men’s Basketball NET Rankings on Selection Sunday - March 15, 2020

Difference = NET Ranking on Selection Sunday - Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Ranking

-150 = 11. Creighton -161.
-130 = 65. Georgetown – 195.
- 88 = 3. Dayton - 91.
-71 = 15. Seton Hall - 86.
-66 = 1. Gonzaga - 67.
-37 = 86. DePaul – 123.
-31 = 5. Baylor – 3 4.
-27 = 2. Kansas - 29.

+20 = 26. Marquette – 6.
+28 = 37. Providence - 9.
+34 = 62. St. John's – 28.

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THE CONCLUSION

Fifteen teams were selected for this study (i.e. the 11 Big East teams plus 1. Gonzaga, 2. Kansas, 3. Dayton, and 5. Baylor).

The Extrema shows that Matt Norlander’s CBS Sports Preseason Predictions had the places of 7 teams wrong by 20 or more places. In 5 instances, Matt picked teams to finish more than 20 places worse than the Selection Sunday NET Rankings. In 2 instances, Matt picked teams to finish more than 20 places better than the Selection Sunday NET Rankings. Matt’s worst error was 49 places (NET #62 St. John’s, who Matt predicted to finish at #111).

The Extrema shows that Barttovik.com’s November 9, 2019 Rankings had the places of 11 teams wrong by 20 or more places. In 8 instances, Bart picked teams to finish more than 20 places worse than the Selection Sunday NET Rankings. In 3 instances, Bart picked teams to finish more than 20 places better than the Selection Sunday NET Rankings. While Matt Norlander did not have any preseason predictions wrong by more than 50 places, Bart Tovik had 5 out of 15 predictions wrong by more than 65 places.

On October 18, 2021, Xuperman wrote:
Check out the predictions of guys that KNOW what they're doing!

https://barttorvik.com/

Wrong.

On October 19, 2021, GumbyDamnit! wrote:
Wait a second... Barttorvik has Dayton (#119) as behind every other team in the BE--including DePaul and G'town. Where's FFlyer?

Try to curb your enthusiasm over a less-than-reliable preseason prediction. You have my solemn assurance that I will eat my fedora on Selection Sunday if Dayton finishes behind all 11 Big East teams in the NCAA’s NET Rankings published on Selection Sunday, 2022.
.

Git c’mon now. I’m a dyed-in-the-wool BE fanatic but can see one reason X, SHU and SJU are not given the benefit of the doubt as you call it. How many tourney games have they won in the past 5 years? Because those other power conf schools have won a bunch. Want the benefit of the doubt? Prove it in March, and you’ll get respect in October. I will openly admit that Nova is prob ranked a few spots higher these past few years as a direct result of respect earned through performance. SJU wants to be ranked? Get bids and win in March. That’s where they should start.

Gumby, my man. I luv ya and your point is well taken. However, it is a LONNNNGGG 6 months to March, my friend

I agree with both of you. As a SJ fan, we've had several recent years where we had Sweet 16 level talent and our high water mark seems to be barely making the tourney and then putting up a stinker and bowing out immediately. We almost always underperformed expectations except that 2011 year which was magical until injuries killed us in tourney. I feel like we're so crazy overdue for a major, major season where we are shockingly good and make the tourney easily as a good seed with a real shot to advance. We will see but we must prove it. So I kinda get us not being in preseason top 25. But Xavier is a veteran team bringing a lot back. They have made Sweet 16's and Elite 8's recently. They should absolutely be given the benefit of the doubt. I agree it should be a minimum of 3 BE teams in top 25 every yr, especially ones where we are pretty loaded. We definitely don't get the respect we deserve, but I think a large part is that Nova has been pulling 95% of the weight. Once we can prove we have 3-4 teams who can make deep March runs regularly, hopefully we get the notoriety.