The New Big East vs. The Old Big East

[bigeastbiggerstage]

https://thebrokenanchor.com/why-do-peop ... -big-east/

If you put 3 all-time great teams from the New Big East on a court with 3 all-time great teams from the Old Big East, the New Big East would go 3-0.

[GumbyDamnit!]

I know you’re trying to carve out some space in the college hoops prognostication space and I commend the effort. So please take this criticism as a way to improve the content. As a fan that has loved both equally—the oBE and nBE are like kids to me—I don’t agree with your premise. You can’t try to compare two different eras using the most recent criteria, or some eye test. You need to inject context. ‘84 Hoyas dominated its era; ‘18 Nova did the same. But put the ‘18 Cats in a game without a shot clock and no 3 pt line, and no freedom of movement, and they’d be far less effective. The opposite is also true obviously.

If you are going to compare different eras you need to compare to the others they competed against. Pick an objective metric: championships, FF’s, RPI, etc. You try to answer an objective premise with a subjective data set. To me I look at things like FF’s and Championships. Everyone can admit that until we start seeing most of our teams make FF’s then we can’t puff out our chests very far.

oBE teams making a FF (many multiple times)
G’town
Nova
SHU
PC
SJU
UConn
Cuse
L’ville
WVU

nBE:
Nova

If I were representing the oBE I’d stop the debate and ask: “we about done here, dawg?”

[Hall2012]

Where are these comparisons even coming from?

From the oBE, it looks like you just picked 3 random teams.

From the nBE you picked...not the BE team that won a natty in 17-18, one of several pretty good teams from last year and...a Villanova team that hasn't even played a game yet?

Huh? I'm really not seeing the point.

[MUBoxer]

Looking at this podcast/site's Twitter they're just out to ruffle feathers with "hot takes" smart to get a following.

[Hall2012]

Looking at this podcast/site's Twitter they're just out to ruffle feathers with "hot takes" smart to get a following.

Yup, just fishing for clicks - and unfortunately I gave him one.

I don't have a problem with people who are active members of this community promoting personal sites/blogs but this guy has 12 posts and 10 of them are just linking to his site. All 12 are on his own threads about his site. C'mon...

[DudeAnon]

I know you’re trying to carve out some space in the college hoops prognostication space and I commend the effort. So please take this criticism as a way to improve the content. As a fan that has loved both equally—the oBE and nBE are like kids to me—I don’t agree with your premise. You can’t try to compare two different eras using the most recent criteria, or some eye test. You need to inject context. ‘84 Hoyas dominated its era; ‘18 Nova did the same. But put the ‘18 Cats in a game without a shot clock and no 3 pt line, and no freedom of movement, and they’d be far less effective. The opposite is also true obviously.

If you are going to compare different eras you need to compare to the others they competed against. Pick an objective metric: championships, FF’s, RPI, etc. You try to answer an objective premise with a subjective data set. To me I look at things like FF’s and Championships. Everyone can admit that until we start seeing most of our teams make FF’s then we can’t puff out our chests very far.

oBE teams making a FF (many multiple times)
G’town
Nova
SHU
PC
SJU
UConn
Cuse
L’ville
WVU

nBE:
Nova

If I were representing the oBE I’d stop the debate and ask: “we about done here, dawg?”

Considering the NBE has only been in existence for 7 (8?) years you would have to use a similar sample size for the OBE. Realistically, the OBE was only the dominant conference in the 80's. The 15 team super conference was a great regular season conference, but damn near every team but UConn would choke in the dance.

[Hall2012]

I know you’re trying to carve out some space in the college hoops prognostication space and I commend the effort. So please take this criticism as a way to improve the content. As a fan that has loved both equally—the oBE and nBE are like kids to me—I don’t agree with your premise. You can’t try to compare two different eras using the most recent criteria, or some eye test. You need to inject context. ‘84 Hoyas dominated its era; ‘18 Nova did the same. But put the ‘18 Cats in a game without a shot clock and no 3 pt line, and no freedom of movement, and they’d be far less effective. The opposite is also true obviously.

If you are going to compare different eras you need to compare to the others they competed against. Pick an objective metric: championships, FF’s, RPI, etc. You try to answer an objective premise with a subjective data set. To me I look at things like FF’s and Championships. Everyone can admit that until we start seeing most of our teams make FF’s then we can’t puff out our chests very far.

oBE teams making a FF (many multiple times)
G’town
Nova
SHU
PC
SJU
UConn
Cuse
L’ville
WVU

nBE:
Nova

If I were representing the oBE I’d stop the debate and ask: “we about done here, dawg?”

Considering the NBE has only been in existence for 7 (8?) years you would have to use a similar sample size for the OBE. Realistically, the OBE was only the dominant conference in the 80's. The 15 team super conference was a great regular season conference, but damn near every team but UConn would choke in the dance.

I'm sorry, what?

[DudeAnon]

I know you’re trying to carve out some space in the college hoops prognostication space and I commend the effort. So please take this criticism as a way to improve the content. As a fan that has loved both equally—the oBE and nBE are like kids to me—I don’t agree with your premise. You can’t try to compare two different eras using the most recent criteria, or some eye test. You need to inject context. ‘84 Hoyas dominated its era; ‘18 Nova did the same. But put the ‘18 Cats in a game without a shot clock and no 3 pt line, and no freedom of movement, and they’d be far less effective. The opposite is also true obviously.

If you are going to compare different eras you need to compare to the others they competed against. Pick an objective metric: championships, FF’s, RPI, etc. You try to answer an objective premise with a subjective data set. To me I look at things like FF’s and Championships. Everyone can admit that until we start seeing most of our teams make FF’s then we can’t puff out our chests very far.

oBE teams making a FF (many multiple times)
G’town
Nova
SHU
PC
SJU
UConn
Cuse
L’ville
WVU

nBE:
Nova

If I were representing the oBE I’d stop the debate and ask: “we about done here, dawg?”

Considering the NBE has only been in existence for 7 (8?) years you would have to use a similar sample size for the OBE. Realistically, the OBE was only the dominant conference in the 80's. The 15 team super conference was a great regular season conference, but damn near every team but UConn would choke in the dance.

I'm sorry, what?

Gumby offered final fours as a metric for conference success. Conveniently leaving out that most of those were in the 80's. In the 90's there was an 8 year stretch with a single final four. In the 2000's there is an 8 year stretch with 3. The OBE was a great conference, but people really overrate it because of its heavy promotion by ESPN.

[MUBoxer]

Considering the NBE has only been in existence for 7 (8?) years you would have to use a similar sample size for the OBE. Realistically, the OBE was only the dominant conference in the 80's. The 15 team super conference was a great regular season conference, but damn near every team but UConn would choke in the dance.

First, it was a 16 team super conference for 7 of those years.

So from 05/06- 12/13 you can throw out Depaul, Rutgers, USF (1), Prov, SJU (1), and SHU (1) as they combine for 3 appearances so of the legit teams in that conference:

UConn 5 appearances won in 11, FF 09, E8 06= Solid

Louisville 7 appearances won in 13, FF 12, E8 in 08 & 09 = solid

Cuse 6 appearances FF 13, E8 12, S16 09 & 10 = solid

Pitt 7 appearances, E8 09, s16 07 = choke

Marquette 8 appearances, E8 13, s16 11 & 12 = choke though not by much & two of those were due to injury

Villanova 7 appearances, FF 09, E8 06, S16 08 = solid but the last 4 years definitely choke.

Georgetown 7 appearances, FF 07, S16 06= choke

Notre Dame 6 appearances = Choke

West Virginia 6 appearances FF 10, S16 06 & 08= solid *wasn't in conference during final year

Cincinnati 3 appearances s16 12= Up in the air but I'd barely even call them a legit team during those 8yrs

62 appearances, 25 times advancing past the first weekend I wouldn't necessarily call it infamous for choking also need to factor in there were a few times where Big East teams knocked another Big East team out (ie: Marquette > Syracuse 2011, UConn > Cinci 2011, Syracuse > Marquette 2013)

Either way, it's difficult to justify calling that conference a bunch of chokers when we have Villanova's championships and just three other second weekend runs 1 from butler and 2 from X in 6 tournaments

[Hall2012]

[

I'm sorry, what?

Gumby offered final fours as a metric for conference success. Conveniently leaving out that most of those were in the 80's. In the 90's there was an 8 year stretch with a single final four. In the 2000's there is an 8 year stretch with 3. The OBE was a great conference, but people really overrate it because of its heavy promotion by ESPN.

The only part I'm questioning is the claim that the team with 4 national championships, 5 final fours, 7 elite eights, and 8 sweet sixteens in 13 appearances since 1999 always chokes in the dance.