OT: Gonzaga in Talks to Join the MWC

[gosports1]

he said that he spoke to 6 ad's and presidents. he didn't say if any two of them were from the same school.

[Bill Marsh]

Since joining the WCC, BYU has been to the tournament 3 times in 6 years. They are not likely to go this year, which would mean missing the tournament 3 years in a row. Even with BYU in the conference, the WCC has received 12 bids in the past 6 years, or a 2-bid conference.

So, it’s not like the addition of BYU has turned the WCC into even a 2-bid league automatically. It’s taken BYU in combination with the recent St Mary’s hot streak, something that is not likely sustainable.

Not sustainable for Saint Mary's?

2017-18 27-4
2016-17 29-5 NCAA
2015-16 29-6 (26-5 Selection Sunday. RPI 38. Snubbed)
2014-15 21-10
2013-14 23-12
2012-13 28-7 NCAA
2011-12 27-6 NCAA
2010-11 25-9 (23-8 Selection Sunday. RPI 46. Snubbed)
2009-10 28-6 NCAA
2008-09 28-7 (24-6 Selection Sunday. RPI 48. Snubbed)
2007-08 25-7 NCAA
2006-07 17-15
2005-06 17-12
2004-05 25-9 NCAA
2003-04 19-12

They'd have made the NCAA's 10 times in 15 years if they didn't keep getting hosed by the committee.

The WCC's problem isn't that there's "no one else besides Gonzaga." They've got SMC, BYU and Pacific's been historically pretty good. Rebuilding but on the right track now that they have Damon Stoudamire.

But their other six teams have played .434 basketball over the last 15 years. That's 90 team seasons and only 27 winning years. 58 losing seasons.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Yes, St Mary’s has had a great run under Randy Bennett but before him, 3 tournament appearances in their entire school history. Are they going to unearth another Randy Bennett? His success has been relied heavily on a pipeline to Australian players. Is that a sustainable model?

A look at St Mary’s attendance, budget, and location suggest that the infrastructure is not there to sustain a big time program. In contrast, Gonzaga has successfully raised funds, has invested heavily in facilities, and has budgeted for the personnel supports that a big time program needs. Their attendance reflects the support they have within the community. They are a unique program. Compare them with Washington State, just 20 miles away. Bigger enrollment, bigger alumni base, bigger budget, bigger league, bigger TV contract. Yet, the WSU is consistently at the bottom of the PAC-12 despite all the advantages they have. That says something really positive about Gonzaga and the way that the Spokane area has embraced them.

Pacific? 9 tournament appearances in the school’s entire history. Only 1 tournament in the past 10 years. They are not a factor.

[Bill Marsh]

What choice do they have?

Continue being the best mid-major program in the country.

That’s the problem.

They’ve just completing almost $30 million in investments in facilities. There’s nothing mid major about that

[NJRedman]

They really want to be in a multi-bid league where other programs are contributing to the pool of money being shared. As they should.

And this is the part that prevents me from calling this move a slam dunk scenario. A 2-3 bid conference with harder schedule doesn't scream an ideal solution, if wcc does cave in and let gonzaga keep more of their tournament credit money.

Yeah but think of a MWC when UNLV and San Diego return more to their norm and Nevada keeps this up. Not crazy to see them grab 4-5 bid without their RPI chicanery a good amount of the time. If I was the Pac 12 i'd be a little nervous if the MWC adds some quality BBall programs like GU, BYU and NM St.

[gtmoBlue]

Yea JP. Great to see you back posting. How bout dem Bonnies!

[Bill Marsh]

And this is the part that prevents me from calling this move a slam dunk scenario. A 2-3 bid conference with harder schedule doesn't scream an ideal solution, if wcc does cave in and let gonzaga keep more of their tournament credit money.

Yeah but think of a MWC when UNLV and San Diego return more to their norm and Nevada keeps this up. Not crazy to see them grab 4-5 bid without their RPI chicanery a good amount of the time. If I was the Pac 12 i'd be a little nervous if the MWC adds some quality BBall programs like GU, BYU and NM St.

Yes, 3-5 bids every year as recently as 2010-13.

[JPSchmack]

Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

Yes, St Mary’s has had a great run under Randy Bennett but before him, 3 tournament appearances in their entire school history. Are they going to unearth another Randy Bennett? His success has been relied heavily on a pipeline to Australian players. Is that a sustainable model?

A look at St Mary’s attendance, budget, and location suggest that the infrastructure is not there to sustain a big time program. In contrast, Gonzaga has successfully raised funds, has invested heavily in facilities, and has budgeted for the personnel supports that a big time program needs. Their attendance reflects the support they have within the community. They are a unique program. Compare them with Washington State, just 20 miles away. Bigger enrollment, bigger alumni base, bigger budget, bigger league, bigger TV contract. Yet, the WSU is consistently at the bottom of the PAC-12 despite all the advantages they have. That says something really positive about Gonzaga and the way that the Spokane area has embraced them.

Pacific? 9 tournament appearances in the school’s entire history. Only 1 tournament in the past 10 years. They are not a factor.

By that assessment of "Sustainable model" the Mountain West is no different than the WCC, and Gonzaga's silly to move.

What you say about Saint Mary's in terms of infrastructure isn't "Wrong," but I think when someone has 15 years of success despite that, you want to give them the benefit of the doubt. There ARE programs that are consistently good with limited resources. THOSE are schools that are ridiculously attractive to expanding conferences, because if Saint Mary's can do THAT with virtually NOTHING, imagine what they can do with a recruiting budget and a facility, and exposure?

And you know this because that's exactly what GONZAGA WAS:
- 35-year old gym, not an arena
- Budget of under $2 million
- Booster club raising $275,000 a year
- Virtually NO NCAA Tournament history
- $25,000 Recruiting budget
- Zero national TV games. They actually PAID a TV network to put their games on regional TV.

Gonzaga invested in facilities... in year SEVEN of their run. The MAC opened in 2004-05.
Gonzaga started spending money on basketball... in year SEVEN, because the NCAA units and the MAC gave them more money.
Gonzaga started expanding as a University with more students, more boosters and more revenue... BECAUSE more students applied after Gonzaga busted their bracket each year.

Gonzaga had 7 years of success on a shoe-string budget before becoming what they are today.


As for Pacific, I was giving them an incomplete, not calling them a WCC power player. What their Big West performance under a retiring coach was doesn't mean anything to the WCC data set. And their WCC data is tainted by their next head coach breaking rules with transfers in his rebuild efforts, a postseason ban and scholarship sanctions.

They were brought in to be Team #4 behind Gonzaga, BYU/SMC. Basically the NIT program behind those two on the bubble. (Your NCAA success context is funny because when they joined the WCC they had earned 5 NCAA units in the previous 10 years with 3 bids and 2 wins. They got an AT-LARGE out of the Big West for crying out loud).


But all of this is "arguing the argument" instead of talking about the topic.

My question is "If you're Gonzaga, and you want to raise your conference performance from what 4 decent teams and six bad teams can do... why are you throwing your lot in with WAC programs that were added to the MWC out of football desperation? The WCC has been the higher rated conference than the MWC in three of the five years since the realignment.

In other words, joining Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV, New Mexico and Boise State is attractive... but when you're the biggest basketball power in the west among all these candidates, why aren't you saying "You can have a football conference with San Jose State in it... but why have them for all sports when they're 3-24 and we've got a Saint Mary's program averaging 25 wins a season?"

Gonzaga should be ringleading a NEW conference. With BYU, Saint Mary's, Nevada, San Diego State, UNLV, New Mexico and Boise State, and saying "we don't need six schools focusing on football and doing a lousy job of playing basketball"

[JPSchmack]

Yea JP. Great to see you back posting. How bout dem Bonnies!

Thanks. The Bonnies are terrifying me on a nightly basis.

I said on the A-10 board in September “I’m not comfortable with being the preseason No. 2 team. We’re the team that’s picked 8th and finishes 3rd. We’re not the team that wins when we’re supposed to.”

So of course after winning at Syracuse to open 10-2 (and the losses without our best player), we open A-10 losing four of the first six and making my life a living hell the rest of the season.

One more loss to someone not named Rhode Island would be the nail in the coffin. And I have expected that nail for 11 consecutive games now. The Triple-OT win over Davidson damned near gave me a stroke.


I’m looking forward to the NCAA Committee screwing us again (We should paint a Big Ten logo on our floor).

[kayako]

What choice do they have?

Continue being the best mid-major program in the country.

That’s the problem.

They’ve just completing almost $30 million in investments in facilities. There’s nothing mid major about that

Move to the MWC, they'd still be the best mid-major program in the country. MWC is not sniffing 5 bids ever again. Gonzaga is already big time, and I don't think it matter which conference they're in.

[stever20]

That's just ignorant. I mean this year they could easily get 2 in w/o Gonzaga and then adding in Gonzaga. Part of it is that with 12 teams, you can have final standings like what the AAC is projected after today- with 4 teams with 12+ wins and 5th at 10-8. That means if you've handled your business OOC, you're going to make the tourney.

Gonzaga I'm telling you is getting hurt by the WCC. These new rules with the tiers changing based on home/away really hurt Gonzaga. I mean right now they've had all of 1 tier 1 game all year long, and only 2 tier 2 games. 6 tier 3 and then a whopping 9 tier 4 games. That's it. Meanwhile Nevada in the MWC has had 1 tier 1 game but then 5 tier 2 games. 7 tier 3 and 5 tier 4. Then in the conference tourney- Gonzaga had tier 4 Loyola Marymount, tier 3 San Francisco, and either tier 1 St Mary's or tier 2 BYU. Meanwhile Nevada will get most likely tier 3 UNLV, tier 2 Fresno/San Diego St(Fresno is 101 right now but if they beat San Diego St will move into ther 2), and then quite possibly tier 1 Boise St. To act like that doesn't impact seeding is just crazy to me.