End of Amateurism and P5 Conferences Split from NCAA

[BEwannabe]

great post ecasadoSBU! The paid places already exist for players seeking pay and it's called the professional leagues, headlined by NBA and G League and USA and pro leagues throughout the world. G League pay for all but probably 25-50 higher paid players is 19- 26,000 per year. While some more experienced players that go up and down between NBA & G earn either 50,000 or 100,000 depending on their situation. Anything more than an across the board modest stipend is beyond all but the biggest brands in college sports, schools with endowments between 100 & 600 million which I think covers the entire Big East except Gtown can't compete in an all out $$'s arms race. There is no model for this anyway except the behind closed doors model. Ohio State doesn't suddenly want to pay 80 footballers $20,000 per year and it's not going to just football players because if you take federal $'s and I think that covers all but 1 or 2 colleges in USA then you're subject to Title 9 enforcement so paying pro type $'s is simply not even going to be under consideration. Even at the current scale, cost of education only a handful of football schools make it financially, no MAC or AAC school and 75% of the ACC and Big 12 would be financially ruined. Not going to happen.

[gtmoBlue]

Geez...I'll just tiptoe around the edges here...oops, s'cuse me (no pun intended). Look out for that lamp. Ahh, there's the other door - outta there. Boy, a ton of heat and hostility in there.
What's up with the Dude? New meds? New wife? New boss?

[billyjack]

yeah gtmo, that heated up fast.

Definitely disagree with the thought that the rich stay rich through their genius, and poor stay poor through their dimwittedness.

I grew up in a typical struggling mill village. Great people who worked hard and struggled to raise their families. Much of the struggle had to do with just bad luck or unexpected misfortune.

Like:
Plant lays off workers for no reason (cuz owners are dicks) or the plant moves down South or wherever, or the plant fires a guy just before retirement.

Or a family has a sick or disabled kid, or one of the parents unexpectedly passes away either suddenly or after a long painful illness. Either of these last two examples happening 10 years ago without healthcare or being kicked off healthcare breaks families... families choosing between taking kid to doctor for a range of issues, or rolling the dice and hope it's nothing serious to try to save money.

Or family has to care for elderly parents or pay for a caregiver. Local factory poisons air or dumps chemicals over local aquifer, dioxon etc in water, people get sick. Then there's the unplanned teen pregnancy issue that happens. And kids going to work immediately after high school for their families making low minimum wage. Or a kid working and going to an affordable community college to maybe become a nurse, but they end of getting paid peanuts for long stressful hours.

And this is in one if the hundreds upon hundreds of typical towns that probably 98% of us grew up in. There are towns and communities that are even more disadvantaged.

Man, life is unfair, and today i'm thankful that i can raise a family in a comfortable middle-class home. But at so many points along the way i could've hit a huge bump in the road. Looking to the future i or anyone could easily fall on hard times through no fault of their own.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Just bad karma i think if i were to forget my past. And the older i get the stronger i feel about this. But feeding off those thoughts above, if a college kid can make money via selling replica t-shirts or jerseys, then to me, they should be allowed to. I mean, Kris Dunn for example could definitely have used extra money.

Sorry to make this so long-winded.

[climbs down off soapbox]

[Savannah Jay]

yeah gtmo, that heated up fast.

Definitely disagree with the thought that the rich stay rich through their genius, and poor stay poor through their dimwittedness.

I grew up in a typical struggling mill village. Great people who worked hard and struggled to raise their families. Much of the struggle had to do with just bad luck or unexpected misfortune.

Like:
Plant lays off workers for no reason (cuz owners are dicks) or the plant moves down South or wherever, or the plant fires a guy just before retirement.

Or a family has a sick or disabled kid, or one of the parents unexpectedly passes away either suddenly or after a long painful illness. Either of these last two examples happening 10 years ago without healthcare or being kicked off healthcare breaks families... families choosing between taking kid to doctor for a range of issues, or rolling the dice and hope it's nothing serious to try to save money.

Or family has to care for elderly parents or pay for a caregiver. Local factory poisons air or dumps chemicals over local aquifer, dioxon etc in water, people get sick. Then there's the unplanned teen pregnancy issue that happens. And kids going to work immediately after high school for their families making low minimum wage. Or a kid working and going to an affordable community college to maybe become a nurse, but they end of getting paid peanuts for long stressful hours.

And this is in one if the hundreds upon hundreds of typical towns that probably 98% of us grew up in. There are towns and communities that are even more disadvantaged.

Man, life is unfair, and today i'm thankful that i can raise a family in a comfortable middle-class home. But at so many points along the way i could've hit a huge bump in the road. Looking to the future i or anyone could easily fall on hard times through no fault of their own.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Just bad karma i think if i were to forget my past. And the older i get the stronger i feel about this. But feeding off those thoughts above, if a college kid can make money via selling replica t-shirts or jerseys, then to me, they should be allowed to. I mean, Kris Dunn for example could definitely have used extra money.

Sorry to make this so long-winded.

[climbs down off soapbox]

Similar story and upbringing for me...

To the point about kids making money...when Todd Gurley was a football player at the University of Georgia, he made money (I think about $3,000) selling his autograph and was suspended four games for doing so. A few years earlier, AJ Green was suspended 4 games for selling his Independence Bowl jersey for $1,000. I thought both were ridiculous...UGA and the NCAA can make money off these kids, but they can't.

My other concern for these kids is that they get proper medical treatment for injuries incurred during their athletic careers, even if they need treatment well after leaving school.

[MullinMayhem]

Anon, with all due respect it's pretty ridiculous to just throw such a strong term like "racist" at someone with no evidence. That term has been weaponized, watered down, and is designed to be a conversation killer. I doubt an actual racist could possibly be a college basketball fan given the demographics of the players on their favorite teams. That would be a conflict of interest. Anyway, I just hope the NCAA stays together, because if the F5 leaves it, we are in trouble.

[gtmoBlue]

Gosh Darn FF, good post.

Football is king. Basketball is a monetary afterthought for the F5. Maybe they make an average of 5 mill each off of basketball.
If they split...they might have a 32 or 40 team CFBA tourney for hoops to appease coaches and fans. See the CBS monetization comment previously.
There could be a bidding war by carriers for this new tourney. Da-da-dum-pa, de-da-dum-pa...de - de - de!

The NCAA depends on the March Madness tourney for its' livelihood. The bulk of the tourney proceeds feed the funding of NCAA programs, not the F5.
If/when there is a split the NCAA will take the monetary hit...not the football schools. The NCAA continues the tourney, until the contract runs out,
but with less proceeds due to less public interest. Credit payouts would take a big hit...possibly up to a 50% hit, dependent upon how the then current TV
contract would be amended. The Good NCAA Folks (lol) in Shawnee Mission/Indianapolis would be frantic. Their org would devolve into a much smaller, less
overbearing one.

As for buy games...Buy games/any games with the CFBA 65 would not count against a teams NCAA talley, therefore the lesser conference teams would have to limit their sales.
The BE/MW/AAC could potentially play a couple/few games also, but they would not count on their season record. I could see a 25-27 game schedule and add up to 4-6 buy games
for those that need them. Then conf tourneys and the New NCAA Tourney (NNCAA).
(My God, the NNCAA is nothing compared to the ONCAA?) lol

[adoraz]

adoraz et al. – you are certainly entitled to your opinions, but bear in mind the realities stated in this post on Page 1 of the thread, noting the “fairness” has nothing to do with the hypothetical P5 conference spit from the NCAA.

Haha... uhhh what???

I never stated "fairness" or even alluded to it in my post. Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean you can put words in my mouth.

My argument was very simple and looked at this from purely a P5 standpoint.

#1 Adding the BE and maybe some other schools allows them to make the first round 64 teams rather than 32. That is a MASSIVE amount of revenue and easily should offset the cost to the P5 of expanding by 15-20%.
#2 If you take schools like Nova, GTown, Xavier, UConn, Cincy, Gonzaga then the NCAA Tournament becomes 100% irrelevant. It would just shut down and there would be zero competition. You'd also have fans from major schools buying into the new system. I think they'd want to take some schools, and the Big East would be the starting point.

Just because I don't think the BE will be left behind doesn't mean this still can't be a problem for the Big East, however. There are still a lot of questions about payments and if the BE can compete.

I am not against paying the players, but it'd need to be capped and heavily monitored, with harsh penalties if broken.

[kmacker69]

"Definitely disagree with the thought that the rich stay rich through their genius, and poor stay poor through their dimwittedness."

First off sorry for the gin soaked over reaction last night.

Point of clarification:living poor and living rich do not equal dumb or genius, just for the day or the future! (And way over generalized, it's a saying to make people think about how they are spending, not a fundamental truth.) I've know lots of rich dumb people and poor people who were damn smart! I grew up poor as dirt in a town that the factories were all closing down in the midwest... Oh and what we call poor in the USA is wealthy in a whole lot of countries that I have got to visit with a gun strapped to my side or back.

I think it boils down to that there are around 20 basketball and maybe double that for football that have a legitimate shot a a career in the NBA or NFL. Should the NCAA change so that they can start making a living at the expense of the other thousands? The problem is the NBA's not the NCAA's. There is a lot more than just Div1 basketball and football for the NCAA to regulate.

I also think that they should have a better option than overseas, the G league, or college. What that is, is hard to say, and why the NBA hasn't done it, but changing the very fundamental nature of the NCAA's isn't the answer in my opinion. Professional sports needs to fix that part of it instead of mixing the amateur and paid in the NCAA. (MLB seems to do ok with their system.)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen an argument to convince me otherwise. The NCAA has been a stepping stone for millions of kids over the years to get out of poverty, and a few crappy Mid west towns that all the jobs left from... (Even if they don't give you a scholarship at all.)

[BEXU]

Dude just comes on here as a fake X fan to agitate/aggravate and you're all still falling for it. Just put him on ignore if you don't realize he's full of BS and a UD fan.

[cu blujs]

That will be the end of college athletics, IMO. It will take less than a decade for state legislatures to start dropping all sports and move to a European model where schools do not sponsor athletic teams and they become club sports. Yes, football makes money, but few universities actually make money off football, and very few are net positive in sports revenue overall. As budgets shrink, there is no way state legislatures in most states will allow universities to start paying large amounts to dozens and dozens of players - plus you aren't just paying football players. Title IX will require equal payment to all female athletes. Few colleges can absorb that costs, and few legislatures will spend tax dollars to subsidize that.