Big East Conference Realignment v2018

[DudeAnon]

Look, Nova is top dog. But I don't think they are stratospheres away from Xavier. Jay Wright ain't the pope, he has his flaws. In my opinion, its tournament play and recruiting. Don't be so sensitive.

This is rich, lol. There is very clear separation between Nova and X, don't be so sensitive. Tournament records since the start of the reconfigured BE; Wright 9-3(1NC), Mack 6-4(1E8). So if tourney play is a flaw for JW what's it for CM? Yeah Jay has a flaw in recruiting, the way the 3 place finisher in the Miss America pageant has a flaw with attractiveness. I think you might still be suffering from a concussion from a severe beating 3 weeks ago.

So you are happy with with the 3 one and outs in the NCAA tournament? You are happy with the recruiting? If you are, that is fine, but Nova ain't perfect. Lets talk 5 years from now and compare those tournament records. If you are truly in another stratosphere then there will be no comparison, but I doubt that will be the case.

[DudeAnon]

They had no choice. A 7 team league isn't viable and they weren't gonna convince any P5 schools to drop football and join them.

Exactly. The Big East had to add teams back then. They don't now for any reason and it certainly would not make much sense to add teams like UD, WSU, VCU. What's the hurry? Wait and see what happens with UCONN. Wait and see what happens with the Big 12. Wait and see what happens with the ACC. The Big East can wait. They can also wait and see if UD sucks again under their new coach. The Big East can wait and see if WSU sucks in a bigger conference or sucks when they eventually lose their coach. The Big East can also wait to see what happens with Ewing at Georgetown, etc.

There is no urgency to add the teams you keep suggesting. Sorry.

Wait and see is a loser's attitude. Do you think the Big 10 presidents wait and see?

[_lh]

Ready, fire, aim.

Rutgers was a fantastic add. Ask any non Rutgers B10 fan.

Waiting and seeing is the smart move right now. No doubt about it.

[Westbrook#36]

So you are happy with with the 3 one and outs in the NCAA tournament? You are happy with the recruiting? If you are, that is fine, but Nova ain't perfect. Lets talk 5 years from now and compare those tournament records. If you are truly in another stratosphere then there will be no comparison, but I doubt that will be the case.

You know what I'm extremely happy about? A National F'ing Championship, that definitely trumps our 2nd second snafu's. Recruiting??? Seriously??? We have been consistently recruiting at a higher level than anyone else in the BE, that certainly includes X. Seems to me someone here is unhappy with their schools place in the BE hierarchy and it isn't me. BTW no one claimed Nova was perfect, nice strawman. Sure we can revisit this at a later date, but if you think Jay Wright and Villanova are going anywhere or just handing over the mantle I don't know what to tell you.

[ThrowDownDBrown]

Since last realignment:

Tier 1: Villanova - Obvious. 8 trophies and counting since realignment ( 4 BE regular season, 2 BET, 1 NCAA Regional, 1 NCAA Championship)
Tier 2: Seton Hall, Providence - Only other schools to actually win something since realignment (1 BET each)
Tier 3: Xavier, Butler - Consistently strong and consistently in the tournament
Tier 4: Creighton, Marquette - Up and down, both appear on an upward trajectory
Tier 5: Georgetown, St. John's, DePaul - Have had their moments but struggling generate momentum

Where "candidates" fit in:

Wichita State - Tier 3 - I can't honestly say I think they're better than Creighton or Marquette, but they fit my consistently strong/in the tournament definition of tier 3. I don't push them up to tier 1 or 2 for conference championships because I have full confidence that DePaul would win multiple conference championships playing in the Creighton-less MVC - meaning their last meaningful trophy was prior to realignment and thus not within the timeframe of my rankings. I think the current Wichita State team would finish somewhere between 4th and 7th if they played in the Big East.

Dayton - Tier 5 - They would fit tier 3 by definition, but unlike Wichita State I'm actually going to drop them because of the coaching change. It simply isn't the same team that was a consistently strong tournament team under Archie Miller so they need to prove they can get back to that level under the new coach before I'm willing to move them above tier 5.

VCU - Tier 5 - See Dayton

UConn - Tier 2/Tier 5 - Ugh - A very hard downward trend, but they bring 2 major trophies (NCAA Regional and NCAA Championship) within the time frame. That's more than anyone not named Villanova could say. You know what? An NCAA investigation trumps a National Championship, especially since it puts the status of those trophies in doubt.

Lol at ranking Seton Hall and Providence over X because they won a meaningless conference tournament. Do something in the real tournament for once. Providence has at least one first round win but that's it. Seton Hall has zero and is currently 6th in winning percentage in the new conference.

Winning the BET is a Big Deal. The history and mystique of the BET is a major cornerstone of why the Big East is a Big Time conference.

No one remembers who won the conference tournaments, they remember what happens in the real tournament.

[ConnersvilleBulldog]

Just so we are clear. Here is how I would rank the Big East in tiers with all realistic candidates added.

1) Nova, Xavier, WSU

2) Creighton, Butler, VCU

3) Seton Hall, Providence, Dayton

4) Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, DePaul, UConn

Anyone disagree with this? If so, what specifically do you disagree with? Georgetown and Marquette may be shocked to see themselves that low. But that is the current state of their program and I don't see it changing any time soon.

By the way, this would be a great conference and arguably more competitive than the one we have now.

You are delusional.

Think about a football 5 conferences poaching for basketball in order. Historical prestige, location, eyes on TV's & (wayyy lesser extent) recent history are all that matter. I might get total disagreement on this, but the tiers would be something like this.

1) Nova

2) Georgetown , UConn, St. Johns

3) Xavier, Marquette, Seton Hall

4) Providence, Creighton, Butler, DePaul

5) Dayton, VCU

6) WSU

What casual fan (outside their market) is running to the tube to see WSU, Dayton and VCU?

I'll be honest, because Butler's not a flashy program I don't think it ever fully gets the respect it deserves. But including Butler in the same line as DePaul is probably the most disrepectful thing I've ever seen about the Butler basketball program.

[DanofXav76]

They had no choice. A 7 team league isn't viable and they weren't gonna convince any P5 schools to drop football and join them.

Exactly. The Big East had to add teams back then. They don't now for any reason and it certainly would not make much sense to add teams like UD, WSU, VCU. What's the hurry? Wait and see what happens with UCONN. Wait and see what happens with the Big 12. Wait and see what happens with the ACC. The Big East can wait. They can also wait and see if UD sucks again under their new coach. The Big East can wait and see if WSU sucks in a bigger conference or sucks when they eventually lose their coach. The Big East can also wait to see what happens with Ewing at Georgetown, etc.

There is no urgency to add the teams you keep suggesting. Sorry.

Wait and see is a loser's attitude. Do you think the Big 10 presidents wait and see?

I know when I see Rutgers, Maryland & Nebraska I automatically thing B1G

[XU85]

Dude:

I usually stay away from the expansion threads because the league is great as is. You post like a UD fan. If you are a Xavier fan, you are the only one I have heard advocating for expansion.

[Hall2012]

So to me, priority should be: 1. NCAA Tournament/Regional Championships, 2. Conference Championships, 3. regular season success, 4. NCAA Tournament wins

Oh wow. This might be HLOH’s worst post ever...which is saying a lot for a forum frequented by Stever.

+ 1, it takes a special level of cognitive dissonance to honestly believe that NCAA tournament wins are the least important metric lol.

Who said least important? You're just making stuff up now. There are plenty of things less important, such as fan support - which you seem to think is 3rd most important. By including it in my criteria, I'm showing that I think tournament wins are absolutely relevant - and they do a lot for the conference. I'm just of the opinion that championships trump all and beyond that, performance over an entire season tells me more than a 1 and done knockout tournament.

[scoscox]

Fun fact: the big east tournament is a one and done knockout tournament. You’re not doing any favors for the logic behind your ranking