Big East Conference Realignment v2018

[mpwalsh8]

+ 1, it takes a special level of cognitive dissonance to honestly believe that NCAA tournament wins are the least important metric lol.

I don't think total NCAA tourney wins is a metric worth keeping. S16, E8, F4 is meaningful and worth counting and tracking. Tournament progression is a better representation of a successful season. I don't think many VU fans would tell you that last seasobn wasn't "disappointing" after the early out in the first weekend. Great season? Absolutely, one of the best ever. It just ended earlier than it should have for a team as good as that one was. Adding "1" to the tournament win count is rather hollow after winning 30+ games. Had VU lost in the S16 game I would have been bummed but not disappointed (unless it was to a far inferior team). Getting to the S16 is a major accomplishment and should be recognized as such.

[scoscox]

Saying championships trump all, but beyond that regular season tells you more than single elimination tourneys is still contradictory. You’re discrediting the value of winning tournaments while simultaneously claiming they are all-important.

I’m just being difficult because I don’t think your logic is totally sound. Regardless, I would not trade our success with anyone in this league besides nova and I’d be hard pressed to believe anyone else honestly believes otherwise.

[Hall2012]

Saying championships trump all, but beyond that regular season tells you more than single elimination tourneys is still contradictory. You’re discrediting the value of winning tournaments while simultaneously claiming they are all-important.

I’m just being difficult because I don’t think your logic is totally sound. Regardless, I would not trade our success with anyone in this league besides nova and I’d be hard pressed to believe anyone else honestly believes otherwise.

I'm not discrediting the value of winning tournaments, I think we're looking at this from different angles. It comes down to the matter of "winning" vs "being the best." A tournament format is more difficult to win because it has zero margin for error, but a regular season format (especially a true round robin as it is in the Big East) is more likely to result in the best team winning. I was ranking my view of team successes/accomplishments rather than the "best teams." If I was to do that, I'd have simply aggregated win% of the time frame in question, adjusted for SOS, and ranked by win%. However, we see in all american sports that the champion isn't always the best team, but winning the championship is more desirable (seen as a greater accomplishment) than being the best team. Do you think the '07 Patriots wouldn't have traded their 18-0 season for the Superbowl? So I chose to rank(tier) team accomplishments (again, purely my opinion, nobody needs to agree with me) weighting championships first, and then by best team the rest of the way down. If I was simply ranking teams by best record, then yes, I believe X would have been second to Nova and Seton Hall way down due to a poor 1st 2 seasons.

Xavier has been consistently very strong during its time in the Big East. They've been very impressive and I wouldn't expect you to trade that success. I wouldn't trade Seton Hall's success either, even with the two crappy years to start and a pair of NCAA Tournament flops. As a huge Big East fan attending the tournament every year while I lived locally, finally seeing the Pirates celebrate and lift the trophy at MSG was an incredibly special moment that I don't think any NCAA win short of a trip to the Final Four would top (though of course it was the first BET in 8 years that I couldn't attend).

[Xudash]

Dude:

I usually stay away from the expansion threads because the league is great as is. You post like a UD fan. If you are a Xavier fan, you are the only one I have heard advocating for expansion.

That's what I was thinking when I saw the rankings with Dayton on the same level as Seton Hall and Providence. Seriously...only a Dayton fan would try to slip that one into this discussion on a board of actual Big East fans.

And the argument that Dayton and VCU would make the conference "arguably more competitive than the one we have now." Dayton is 10-11 right now and VCU is already 0-2 against the Big East this year. Not sure how that makes the conference more competitive.

Pretty sure Dayton got the best of Providence last time they played. I understand having a differing opinion on this board can incite rage, catholic sensibilities and all. I just think the C7 schools overrate themselves a bit and underrate the A-10 schools a bit.

The bolded statement truly is one of the dumbest statements ever posted on this board.

You are getting beaten like a piñata here.

Simple question for you: your primary premise seems to be about "striking while the iron is hot".

Do you know why the iron is hot? It's hot because of the success the Big East is enjoying in its ten team format. And it's enjoying this success while Georgetown, St. John's and DePaul are all working to get back up to full steam. Imagine this conference when that happens. It will be a glorious bloodbath with battle tested programs that make it to the NCAAT well positioned for runs.

Also and importantly, the Big East leadership is comprised of some very sharp people. If expansion made sense AT ANY LEVEL AND FOR ANY REASON AT THIS POINT, they would have pursued it already.

I have to believe you are a UD fan posing as a Xavier fan. No one in their right mind would consider UD a logical candidate for expansion when it had Archie, let alone now, given that it has become a hot mess. Your ideas about "variety" in composition of membership - mixing "junior colleges" with the likes of what we have now - are truly stupid. Your thinking demonstrates that you don't have a clue about brand management.

And you certainly are three sheets to the wind when it comes to understanding the notion of strategic advantage when it comes to why Xavier will support checkmating UD on this matter. We helped UD get into the A10. I doubt we'll be helpful like that again should expansion talks actually crank up for the Big East.

The Big East most likely isn't expanding any time soon. If and when it does consider expansion, it will do so by most likely evaluating strategic candidates that present themselves. Otherwise, the Big East will continue to manage itself collectively where the assumption will be that it will maintain a high level of performance AS-IS. With that being the case, it will not take rash action. It certainly won't dilute its product.

From a bargaining standpoint, it makes absolutely ZERO sense to "strike while the iron is hot" by adding inferior programs to the Big East Conference mix. That notion alone reflects just how far out to lunch you are about all this.

[alduflux]

My thoughts:

1) I really wish Jay would coach the Jay's so that all the Jay's were in one place. That way when someone says Jay in the shorthand I don't have to reread it to know what school the're referring too.

2) I'm somewhat amazed at how people value history of programs differently, specifically how to value a program for past accomplishments.

3) I'm in favor of expansion only if it means adding a legit basketball program. Basically a program on par with what Creighton, Butler, Xavier were before joining NBE. That mostly means just Gonzaga (geography is not a concern of mine), UCONN or a P5 defector.

[DudeAnon]

That's what I was thinking when I saw the rankings with Dayton on the same level as Seton Hall and Providence. Seriously...only a Dayton fan would try to slip that one into this discussion on a board of actual Big East fans.

And the argument that Dayton and VCU would make the conference "arguably more competitive than the one we have now." Dayton is 10-11 right now and VCU is already 0-2 against the Big East this year. Not sure how that makes the conference more competitive.

Pretty sure Dayton got the best of Providence last time they played. I understand having a differing opinion on this board can incite rage, catholic sensibilities and all. I just think the C7 schools overrate themselves a bit and underrate the A-10 schools a bit.

The bolded statement truly is one of the dumbest statements ever posted on this board.

You are getting beaten like a piñata here.

Simple question for you: your primary premise seems to be about "striking while the iron is hot".

Do you know why the iron is hot? It's hot because of the success the Big East is enjoying in its ten team format. And it's enjoying this success while Georgetown, St. John's and DePaul are all working to get back up to full steam. Imagine this conference when that happens. It will be a glorious bloodbath with battle tested programs that make it to the NCAAT well positioned for runs.

Also and importantly, the Big East leadership is comprised of some very sharp people. If expansion made sense AT ANY LEVEL AND FOR ANY REASON AT THIS POINT, they would have pursued it already.

I have to believe you are a UD fan posing as a Xavier fan. No one in their right mind would consider UD a logical candidate for expansion when it had Archie, let alone now, given that it has become a hot mess. Your ideas about "variety" in composition of membership - mixing "junior colleges" with the likes of what we have now - are truly stupid. Your thinking demonstrates that you don't have a clue about brand management.

And you certainly are three sheets to the wind when it comes to understanding the notion of strategic advantage when it comes to why Xavier will support checkmating UD on this matter. We helped UD get into the A10. I doubt we'll be helpful like that again should expansion talks actually crank up for the Big East.

The Big East most likely isn't expanding any time soon. If and when it does consider expansion, it will do so by most likely evaluating strategic candidates that present themselves. Otherwise, the Big East will continue to manage itself collectively where the assumption will be that it will maintain a high level of performance AS-IS. With that being the case, it will not take rash action. It certainly won't dilute its product.

From a bargaining standpoint, it makes absolutely ZERO sense to "strike while the iron is hot" by adding inferior programs to the Big East Conference mix. That notion alone reflects just how far out to lunch you are about all this.

1) I am not a UD fan. I have been here for years as a Xavier fan and I used to be completely against their addition. I have changed my mind.

2) Unlike gtmo and jpschmack (where he at?) I don't seek to add inferior programs.

3) Lets just leave it as this. I believe WSU, UD and VCU all have the capacity to do what Butler, Creighton and Xavier have done. Elevate themselves and the conference. Does Xavier want UD in? Hell no. I want what is best for the conference because I believe Xavier will be fine.

So while damn near everybody seems to disagree. I stand by my assertion that WSU, UD and VCU are all sleeping giants the same way that Xavier went from darling mid-major to now a Top 10 team 2 years and counting.

[_lh]

You are a UD fan.

To think UD, VCU and WSU are sleeping giants is ridiculous. They would have to have been giants at some point in the past. All three are flash in the pan mid-major programs on down cycles that will always come when called. There is no reason to add any of them.

[scoscox]

I stand by my assertion that WSU, UD and VCU are all sleeping giants the same way that Xavier went from darling mid-major to now a Top 10 team 2 years and counting.

I don't totally disagree, but they have to prove that first. Dayton, in particular, has done a remarkable job of not succeeding in spite of their tremendous support and resources. They just can't figure it out. I don't trust any of them at this point. Xavier had made like 20 of the last 24 tournaments, won the A-10 basically every year, had a national POY, 2 elite eights and multiple sweet sixteens before we got invited to the big time. We succeeded in the BE because we were ready for it and the same goes for butler and creighton. Dayton hasn't sniffed that kind of consistency in 60 years. VCU and WSU have never come close in their entire history. I think they have the most potential as of now, but they haven't proven it yet.

[Omaha1]

You are a UD fan.

To think UD, VCU and WSU are sleeping giants is ridiculous. They would have to have been giants at some point in the past. All three are flash in the pan mid-major programs on down cycles that will always come when called. There is no reason to add any of them.

Shockers lose tonight to a .500 Temple team.

[GoldenWarrior11]

The realignment cycle of 2010-2013 was driven by media markets. It's why Rutgers and Maryland were targeted by the B1G. It's why the SEC went after Texas A&M and Missouri. It's also why the ACC snatched Syracuse and Pittsburgh, which sparked a whole round of crazy realignment. The next realignment cycle will not be driven by media markets but rather content. We are moving away from subscription-based pay models and towards content driven ones. Fox, with its acquiring of NFL Thursday Night Football, is only adding content at this point, which adds to its MLB Playoff roster at the same time (which, in turn, helps FS1). If Fox wants more college basketball content for its package, that will not prevent it from offering more money to the Big East to offer someone (anyone) to add content to its collective. If the Big East schools are getting more money and long-term security as a result of it, they wouldn't turn it down either.

The game-changer could very well be the 20-game conference schedule by the P5. If that happens, the Big East will absolutely 100% follow suit, in order to not be left behind. Remember, the Big East contract guaranteed the original payout of $500 million to $600 million (which would obviously now be adjusted for the time lapse in the deal) if we go to 12. None of the member schools would lose money if they added a member or two.