AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby gtmoBlue » Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:02 pm

Creighton should beat NWern on Wednesday, but that alone won't be enough to get ranked.
I expect the Jays to be ranked following their winning the HOF Classic in KC...the week of Nov 27th.
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby adoraz » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:10 am

Yes SJU is far off from getting ranked, but that's a good thing. We don't have an overly tough schedule, unlike last year where we started off 2-5. That's completely unnecessary and our OOC schedule is great. Absolutely no reason to complain about that. I just care about having other BE teams get ranked so we'll have plenty of opportunities to beat ranked teams when we're ready to.

So far, a solid though not great start. No bad losses and a couple nice wins. We could potentially have FOUR teams next week. Surprising amount of movement last week considering nothing happened. I get the feeling some voters forgot to include BE teams during the pre-season.

#5 Nova (+1)- Beat Nicholls. Vs Lafayette on 11/17. Guaranteed to be ranked next week. Too early to tell where.
#15 Xavier (+2)- Beat Rider. @ Wisconsin 11/16. Will be a tough game but should remain ranked even if they lose.
#22 Seton Hall (+1)- Beat Indiana. Vs NJIT 11/18. Will remain ranked as long as they beat NJIT.

So I'd say at least a 95% chance we have a minimum of 3 ranked teams next week.

#30 Providence- lost Vs Minnesota won't be ranked
#37 Butler- lost @ Maryland so won't be ranked
Creighton- won @ #20 Northwestern but probably won't be ranked yet. Have a shot, though.

Aside from that, other teams like SJU have a chance at getting ranked the following week if everything goes right during tournaments. Again, no bad losses for any teams yet just some missed opportunities.

Would be nice to see Xavier hold firm tomorrow.
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby adoraz » Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:09 am

WOW! What a week for the BE!

Still a few more Top 25 games tomorrow but not expecting movement. Predictions for Monday's update:
#5-#4 Nova- Won Vs Nicholls & Lafayette. #2 MSU lost, so I could see them passing them. #5 wouldn't surprise me, though.
#15-#13 Xavier- Won Vs Rider & @ Wisconsin. Teams in front of them won, but Xavier was one of only a few teams playing against a challenging opponent.
#22-#21 Seton Hall- Won Vs Indiana & NJIT. #20 Northwestern will fall below them. Don't think the Indiana win was enough for them to move up too much, but this early in the season there's more movement for relatively minor wins.

We just completed the Gavitt Games and won't lose any group for the second straight week! Unlike most ranked teams, we have teams like Xavier and Seton Hall that have already legitimized their rankings with a solid win.

#30-#38 Providence- Lost Vs #14 Minnesota, Won Vs Washington & Saint Louis.
#37-#50 Butler- Lost @ Maryland, Won Vs Furman. Not sure how many teams will receive votes, but I expect them to still get a couple.
NV-#29 Creighton- Won @ #20 Northwestern. First non-ranked team to upset a ranked team. May or may not be ranked, but will have an excellent chance this upcoming week.

Will do another update after the rankings come out Monday. Even some teams not receiving any votes this week (like SJU) would be ranked if they win their tournament.
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby stever20 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:20 am

adoraz wrote: Even some teams not receiving any votes this week (like SJU) would be ranked if they win their tournament.


normal situation I'd agree with you with SJU, but I don't think it's that strong of a tourney due to the PK80 tourney. Don't think beating Oregon St, Missouri, and West Virginia would be enough to get into the top 25. And that would be the absolute only possible combo that SJ would have. I mean- they could get instead of Missouri Long Beach St. Instead of West Virginia- Nebraska or UCF. It's normally a great tourney, but just not this season.

I'd say a team like a Marquette would be far more likely. They get VCU, then Wichita, and then either Michigan or Notre Dame. If Marquette were to win Maui, I could see them getting in given the teams they would have beaten.
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby adoraz » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:12 pm

stever20 wrote:
adoraz wrote: Even some teams not receiving any votes this week (like SJU) would be ranked if they win their tournament.


normal situation I'd agree with you with SJU, but I don't think it's that strong of a tourney due to the PK80 tourney. Don't think beating Oregon St, Missouri, and West Virginia would be enough to get into the top 25. And that would be the absolute only possible combo that SJ would have. I mean- they could get instead of Missouri Long Beach St. Instead of West Virginia- Nebraska or UCF. It's normally a great tourney, but just not this season.

I'd say a team like a Marquette would be far more likely. They get VCU, then Wichita, and then either Michigan or Notre Dame. If Marquette were to win Maui, I could see them getting in given the teams they would have beaten.


I definitely don't expect SJU to be ranked. That'd mean winning the tournament, and likely needing to play WVU in the finals. But, I think after the Gavitt games voters are already aware that SJU can have a special season. If you look at the preseason Big East analysis articles, most writers mention SJU as being a wild card with a high ceiling. So if they start off 7-0 with a ranked win and FOUR wins over F5 schools, I think that'd be enough. That'd certainly be enough for them to be a top 25 team on paper, and as mentioned most voters are or at least should be aware of SJU's potential.

I'm actually pretty sure I had this exact discussion with you 3 years ago (or may have been someone else, sorry if it wasn't you). We started off 6-1 with a loss to #10 Gonzaga and wins over unranked Minnesota and Syracuse. Aside from that, we beat nobody of significance. We ended up getting ranked right after the Syracuse game, as I predicted, while someone else said we wouldn't be ranked yet. That team, like this one, had a high ceiling and voters knew it. If we somehow win the tournament while beating WVU in the finals, no doubt that'd be a better resume than the one we had 3 years ago (6-1 with weaker opponents).

Anyways, I agree other teams have a better shot at getting ranked. I just mentioned SJU because I'm a fan and to outline how most teams, regardless of current status, have a good chance this upcoming week.

I hope we can continue this debate a week from now. :)
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby stever20 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 pm

adoraz wrote:
stever20 wrote:
adoraz wrote: Even some teams not receiving any votes this week (like SJU) would be ranked if they win their tournament.


normal situation I'd agree with you with SJU, but I don't think it's that strong of a tourney due to the PK80 tourney. Don't think beating Oregon St, Missouri, and West Virginia would be enough to get into the top 25. And that would be the absolute only possible combo that SJ would have. I mean- they could get instead of Missouri Long Beach St. Instead of West Virginia- Nebraska or UCF. It's normally a great tourney, but just not this season.

I'd say a team like a Marquette would be far more likely. They get VCU, then Wichita, and then either Michigan or Notre Dame. If Marquette were to win Maui, I could see them getting in given the teams they would have beaten.


I definitely don't expect SJU to be ranked. That'd mean winning the tournament, and likely needing to play WVU in the finals. But, I think after the Gavitt games voters are already aware that SJU can have a special season. If you look at the preseason Big East analysis articles, most writers mention SJU as being a wild card with a high ceiling. So if they start off 7-0 with a ranked win and FOUR wins over F5 schools, I think that'd be enough. That'd certainly be enough for them to be a top 25 team on paper, and as mentioned most voters are or at least should be aware of SJU's potential.

I'm actually pretty sure I had this exact discussion with you 3 years ago (or may have been someone else, sorry if it wasn't you). We started off 6-1 with a loss to #10 Gonzaga and wins over unranked Minnesota and Syracuse. Aside from that, we beat nobody of significance. We ended up getting ranked right after the Syracuse game, as I predicted, while someone else said we wouldn't be ranked yet. That team, like this one, had a high ceiling and voters knew it. If we somehow win the tournament while beating WVU in the finals, no doubt that'd be a better resume than the one we had 3 years ago (6-1 with weaker opponents).

Anyways, I agree other teams have a better shot at getting ranked. I just mentioned SJU because I'm a fan and to outline how most teams, regardless of current status, have a good chance this upcoming week.

I hope we can continue this debate a week from now. :)

That was a week later- meaning the ACC/Big Ten challenge had happened. Sure enough 3 Big Ten teams dropped from the ratings that particular week.
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby kayako » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:08 pm

stever20 wrote:
adoraz wrote: Even some teams not receiving any votes this week (like SJU) would be ranked if they win their tournament.


normal situation I'd agree with you with SJU, but I don't think it's that strong of a tourney due to the PK80 tourney. Don't think beating Oregon St, Missouri, and West Virginia would be enough to get into the top 25. And that would be the absolute only possible combo that SJ would have. I mean- they could get instead of Missouri Long Beach St. Instead of West Virginia- Nebraska or UCF. It's normally a great tourney, but just not this season.

I'd say a team like a Marquette would be far more likely. They get VCU, then Wichita, and then either Michigan or Notre Dame. If Marquette were to win Maui, I could see them getting in given the teams they would have beaten.


Polls usually care more about the W/L column than they should.
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby Jet915 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:33 pm

New poll out:

#5 Villanova
#15 Xavier
#20 Seton Hall
#31 Providence
#35 Creighton

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll/2018/3
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby stever20 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:38 pm

Jet915 wrote:New poll out:

#5 Villanova
#15 Xavier
#20 Seton Hall
#31 Providence
#35 Creighton

http://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll/2018/3

yeah Creighton probably got hurt to some degree by what Texas Tech did to Northwestern. Made that win seem far less impressive.
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Re: AP Top 25 - Getting and Staying Ranked

Postby MullinMayhem » Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:59 pm

stever20 wrote:
adoraz wrote: Even some teams not receiving any votes this week (like SJU) would be ranked if they win their tournament.


normal situation I'd agree with you with SJU, but I don't think it's that strong of a tourney due to the PK80 tourney. Don't think beating Oregon St, Missouri, and West Virginia would be enough to get into the top 25. And that would be the absolute only possible combo that SJ would have. I mean- they could get instead of Missouri Long Beach St. Instead of West Virginia- Nebraska or UCF. It's normally a great tourney, but just not this season.

I'd say a team like a Marquette would be far more likely. They get VCU, then Wichita, and then either Michigan or Notre Dame. If Marquette were to win Maui, I could see them getting in given the teams they would have beaten.


If SJ goes undefeated and wins the tourney I don't see how we aren't ranked. A few years back we took care of our OOC schedule going something like 9-1 or 10-1 and a win over unranked Cuse is what got us into the top 25 if I remember correctly. You don't have to beat Duke and UNC to be ranked...you just have to consistently win against major conference opponents and take care of the cupcakes. If SJ continues to play anywhere near how they did last game, we will get there.
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