The Holy Land of Hoops

If even possible, I bet Stever got a woody reading this

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... onference/

I find it pretty easy to disagree with most of what he wrote.

So the year that Louisville was a member it was not a Major 7 league, but now that Witchta State is in it is? Ha ha.

I mean Wichita is good and all that, but they're not such a giant program that they move the needle for an entire conference's forecast for the foreseeable future. Based on only their recent history they should be a top 50 program most seasons and every 3 or 4 be able to make a good run in the tournament. They aren't a Duke or UK though where you can just pencil them into the top 10 pretty much every year and the Sweet Sixteen is the baseline season, better is great, and worse is a huge disappointment.

I would be interested to know if the writer would have considered the Atlantic-10 to now be a major conference if Wichita had joined them instead, or if Butler's move to the Atlantic-10 a few years ago made the Atlantic-10 a power conference.

The writer says, "College basketball, from a national viewpoint, is improved by having another conference bolstered to objectively clearing the bar for "major" status." What is the 'objective' bar that was cleared? How wide was the gap before, and how much did this close it? Did the AAC surpass another major conference? I'm fine with the AAC being a major conference, even the Atlantic-10 being a major conference, there are over 30 conferences so having more than 5 or 6 be considered major is alright with me. I just don't quite understand how this can be claimed at this point in time, when last season the AAC was not considered a major conference and without a game being played yet this season a team bounced in the second round makes the entire conference rise up a level.

I do love this quote from Gregg Marshall about 'major programs' putting down schools like Wichita State and Gonzaga as mid majors:

"What I think you'll find is those are fans of a BCS program that's not very successful," Marshall said. "There's a lot of schools, and I'm not going to name names, that are fortunate their university was placed in a certain conference so many years ago. Otherwise, they would be viewed very differently. A lot of this is just the conference. 'We're a big-time school, we're a big-time program,' when that's not the case. It's just the league you're in."

So this article is very high on the American due to their addition of Wichita State.

Looking at the Wheat Shockers' numbers over last 4 years, playing without Creighton in the MVC (also 4 years cuz i got bored looking at them):

2017 Wichita 31-5.
2016 Wichita 26-9.
2015 Wichita 30-5.
2014 Wichita 35-1.

Looking at their OOC vs Big Six schools in these years:

2017 they were 2-4 vs Big Six schools:
Wins:
Oklahoma (11-20).
LSU (10-21).
Losses:
Louisville.
Michigan State.
Oklahoma State.
Kentucky (NCAA).
(other loss was vs Illinois State).

2016 they were 3-5 vs Big Six schools:
Wins:
Utah.
Vanderbilt (NCAA).
Arizona (NCAA).
Losses:
Southern Cal.
Alabama.
Iowa.
Seton Hall.
Miami of Fla (NCAA).
(other 3 losses were vs Illinois State, and twice to Northern Iowa).

2015 they were 4-2 vs Big Six schools:
Wins:
Seton Hall.
Alabama.
Indiana (NCAA).
Kansas (NCAA).
Losses:
Utah.
Notre Dame (NCAA).
(other losses were vs Northern Iowa and Illinois State).

2014 they were 3-1 vs Big Six schools.
Wins:
DePaul.
Tennessee.
Alabama (13-19).
Loss:
Kentucky (NCAA).

Last 2 seasons vs Big Six schools: 5-9.
Last 4 seasons vs Big Six schools: 12-12.

Anyway, i just wanted to toss these numbers out there.
Over the past 4 years, they had two great wins, vs Arizona and Kansas.
Other than those 2 wins, which were impressive, they've beaten the living crap out of the Valley... except vs non-comatose Valley teams like Northern Iowa or Illinois State.

Good add for the AAC, but will it be a game changer?

billyjack wrote:So this article is very high on the American due to their addition of Wichita State.

Looking at the Wheat Shockers' numbers over last 4 years, playing without Creighton in the MVC (also 4 years cuz i got bored looking at them):

2017 Wichita 31-5.
2016 Wichita 26-9.
2015 Wichita 30-5.
2014 Wichita 35-1.

Looking at their OOC vs Big Six schools in these years:

2017 they were 2-4 vs Big Six schools:
Wins:
Oklahoma (11-20).
LSU (10-21).
Losses:
Louisville.
Michigan State.
Oklahoma State.
Kentucky (NCAA).
(other loss was vs Illinois State).

2016 they were 3-5 vs Big Six schools:
Wins:
Utah.
Vanderbilt (NCAA).
Arizona (NCAA).
Losses:
Southern Cal.
Alabama.
Iowa.
Seton Hall.
Miami of Fla (NCAA).
(other 3 losses were vs Illinois State, and twice to Northern Iowa).

2015 they were 4-2 vs Big Six schools:
Wins:
Seton Hall.
Alabama.
Indiana (NCAA).
Kansas (NCAA).
Losses:
Utah.
Notre Dame (NCAA).
(other losses were vs Northern Iowa and Illinois State).

2014 they were 3-1 vs Big Six schools.
Wins:
DePaul.
Tennessee.
Alabama (13-19).
Loss:
Kentucky (NCAA).

Last 2 seasons vs Big Six schools: 5-9.
Last 4 seasons vs Big Six schools: 12-12.

Anyway, i just wanted to toss these numbers out there.
Over the past 4 years, they had two great wins, vs Arizona and Kansas.
Other than those 2 wins, which were impressive, they've beaten the living crap out of the Valley... except vs non-comatose Valley teams like Northern Iowa or Illinois State.

Good add for the AAC, but will it be a game changer?

Wichita State was legitimately good a few years ago, but yeah I think they were overrated (by fans) last year and probably this year as well. I'd say the same about Gonzaga, but you love that program so...

We just gotta keep doing what we've been doing during the non-conference part of the schedule, and perform better during the tournament.

Who cares? What does "major conference" even mean? It's all relative. The gap between the Big East and the American is wider than the Grand Canyon and even Wichita State can't change that. Strong teams at the top isn't their issue - they've had a few every year. The AAC's problems are a less than inspiring middle of the league and massive amounts of deadwood at the bottom.

I know we discuss them they're the other half of our split, but they really aren't that relevant to us anymore. We should be discussing what we need to do to overtake our current peer conferences, the Big XII and ACC, to be the undisputed #1 basketball league year in and year out, not looking over our shoulder at league 4-5 places behind us.

Hey kayako,
Lol, yes that's right, i do like Gonzaga and would support adding them. The Zags wins in non-conference are way deeper than Wichita's.

Also, Hall is right that our focus should be totally on the ACC. i saw this thread, was curious about Wichita's resume, and figured i'd post it.

Meh nobody in their right mind is going to say that the top of that conference is not a major conference. Look at Cinci, UConn, Memphis, Temple, Houston, SMU and Wichita State that’s one hell of a great mix of tradition and current power that rivals our conference and actually might have more final fours to its name than our 10 team conference. It’s the other half of that league that makes it so abysmal. I mean not just bad but truly pathetic. No history, no support, nothing.

I wonder how a conference can be considered a major conference when almost every school that matters in it wants out.