The Holy Land of Hoops

We all know that Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis want in the conference.

Nonetheless, I pose the question as to whether they are really a fit if expansion ever made the agenda. As much as Dayton gets brought up, there is just so much overlap with Xavier. I wonder if it would really do Georgetown any good to have VCU down the road.

When people argue against St. Louis they always bring up their lack of competitive strength and, frankly, I wonder if that is selling the NBE short as a program developer. If we look at the map, it becomes clear that the major argument for expansion is to fill out the footprint. We should make it a contiguous assembly.



Other conferences have successfully cultivated programs, why can't the NBE? TCU basketball used to be a dreg but in the Big 12 its quickly becoming decent. SMU has grown into a 30 game winner in the AAC. Wouldn't St. Louis have more to sell in a new neighborhood and by extension become a legitimate program with membership?

Why can't a Drake develop into a strong program when it sits between Creighton, Marquette and DePaul? If the conference would ease up on the implied religious and private 'requirement' then Northern Iowa could make all the sense in the world. (We wouldn't really need to grow a Drake.) Given UNI is McDermott's alma mater, I'm sure it would have some support.... But if we nitpick then something has got to give.

Bottom line: if we take a step back for a minute, are we placing too much value on recent basketball prowess? An athletic conference should be geographically sound. I personally think Valpo could be an asset if allowed the room to grow their brand.

That said, it doesn't seem like there is a lot of belief in the transformative strength of conference membership. Which brings me back to the question I originally posed. Could the NBE grow a MBB program?

Uconn makes most sense. Dayton makes sense if Uconn isn't interested and we need to go to a 20 game schedule as OOC games get more difficult as other conferences go to 20. St Louis could make sense but would to major league pick its play. FOX will have a big say in any addition.

We need to stop feeding the bucket

SMU rose because Larry Brown thought he was going to be coaching in the Big East. We'll see how they do as we get farther away from the Brown era.

TCU got their golden boy alumni to come back home after turning Pitt into a perennial power in the Big East. Yes, it was because they were in a power conference but thy probably wouldn't have gotten a coach of that caliber without his connection to the school.

The Big East grew UConn but it took 10 years without an NCAA appearance before they finally arrived.

Absolutely, but there needs to be a commitment and plan from the said school to invest and grow the men's basketball program, and any other programs they have, into the level of what the Big East currently offers. Conversations have always drifted towards Saint Louis and Dayton, which both would be elevated nationally and financially with a move to the Big East, but I would also - long-term - consider schools like Duquesne (Pittsburgh), Davidson (North Carolina) and Fordham (New York City) as other potential schools that could be immensely improved and built by invitations to the Big East. St. Joseph, if not in Philadelphia, would also be a good one, as would Siena, which has a huge arena.

However, any addition needs to make the commitment towards improvement FIRST, not hope and wait for an invitation by the Big East and THEN start investing. If you want to be in the league, then show that you belong, regionally and nationally.

CrawfishBucket wrote:We all know that Dayton, VCU, and St. Louis want in the conference.

Nonetheless, I pose the question as to whether they are really a fit if expansion ever made the agenda. As much as Dayton gets brought up, there is just so much overlap with Xavier. I wonder if it would really do Georgetown any good to have VCU down the road.

When people argue against St. Louis they always bring up their lack of competitive strength and, frankly, I wonder if that is selling the NBE short as a program developer. If we look at the map, it becomes clear that the major argument for expansion is to fill out the footprint. We should make it a contiguous assembly.

Looking at the map, I don't see how St Louis "fills out the footprint." But even if they did, I don't see why this is even a concern.

Other conferences have successfully cultivated programs, why can't the NBE? TCU basketball used to be a dreg but in the Big 12 its quickly becoming decent. SMU has grown into a 30 game winner in the AAC. Wouldn't St. Louis have more to sell in a new neighborhood and by extension become a legitimate program with membership?

Why can't a Drake develop into a strong program when it sits between Creighton, Marquette and DePaul? If the conference would ease up on the implied religious and private 'requirement' then Northern Iowa could make all the sense in the world. (We wouldn't really need to grow a Drake.) Given UNI is McDermott's alma mater, I'm sure it would have some support....

Yes, these schools would fill in any gap in the geography, not St Louis.

It's odd that the focus always seems to be on the gap between Chicago and Omaha, yet there never seems to be a concern about the gap between Washington and Cincinnati, which is actually greater.

Bill Marsh wrote:It's odd that the focus always seems to be on the gap between Chicago and Omaha, yet there never seems to be a concern about the gap between Washington and Cincinnati, which is actually greater.

Bill, do you have a viable suggestion for filling the gap from D.C. to Cincy that would be realistic. (Would Duquesne, for example, be willing to play all its Conference games and selected OOC games at the PPG Paints Arena, as long as the Pens' schedule didn't interfere? Palumbo, at less than 4,500, even with a redo, will not likely qualify as a Big East level facility,)

Bill Marsh wrote:Looking at the map, I don't see how St Louis "fills out the footprint." But even if they did, I don't see why this is even a concern.

Because it's one of the largest midwest markets we're not already in? I think this was more in terms of filling out the Big East's midwest footprint than bridging the gap between Chicago and Omaha. I'm against expansion in general, but if we had to, the midwest schools I'd be be most in favor of are Saint Louis and Detroit Mercy.

muskienick wrote:

Bill Marsh wrote:It's odd that the focus always seems to be on the gap between Chicago and Omaha, yet there never seems to be a concern about the gap between Washington and Cincinnati, which is actually greater.

Bill, do you have a viable suggestion for filling the gap from D.C. to Cincy that would be realistic. (Would Duquesne, for example, be willing to play all its Conference games and selected OOC games at the PPG Paints Arena, as long as the Pens' schedule didn't interfere? Palumbo, at less than 4,500, even with a redo, will not likely qualify as a Big East level facility,)

No, I don't.

Hall2012 wrote:

Bill Marsh wrote:Looking at the map, I don't see how St Louis "fills out the footprint." But even if they did, I don't see why this is even a concern.

Because it's one of the largest midwest markets we're not already in? I think this was more in terms of filling out the Big East's midwest footprint than bridging the gap between Chicago and Omaha. I'm against expansion in general, but if we had to, the midwest schools I'd be be most in favor of are Saint Louis and Detroit Mercy.

Got it. I see your point about markets.