The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby stever20 » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:11 am

MullinMayhem wrote:
stever20 wrote:
MullinMayhem wrote:SMU is still benefiting from the Larry Brown era that recently ended. Same as UConn a couple years after Calhoun left. Just like UConn became mediocre to bad after Calhoun's fingerprints disappeared, SMU will become the same after Brown's are gone.

And other programs are on the rise. Houston, UCF to name just 2. Temple will be much improved this year. The AAC should get 3 in easily, and if things broke right could easily get 5. I mean just looking at SMU shows one reason why. They don't see Temple, UConn, Tulsa, or Memphis but once. So while they see Wichita, UCF, and Cincy 2x- they avoid playing some good teams 2x. Means their conference record could be a lot stronger than you would think. That helps getting in the tourney.

And wouldn't count out UConn yet. They had a ton of injuries last year. They're healthy this year- so lets see where they are now. Could easily get in the tourney.

What is funny is if the AAC does break off and seperate themselves from the A10- and closer to the p5+BE- I think for the big East that's a good thing. Much fewer other teams with a real shot at at large spots. I mean look at the projection this year. A10 has 2 teams in(with 1 being the 35th of 36 at larges). WCC has 2 teams in. Those 2 conferences are the only outside conferences from the top 7. MWC has teams at #50(Nevada automatic) and then #56 San Diego St. But then nothing until like #80. I think the closer the AAC gets to the top 6 conferences, the more the perception of a split makes it that much tougher for those other conferences like the A10, MWC, etc.


Stever, not only does the AAC suck, even if they got 4 teams in the tourney this year they simply don't move the needle. St. John's in a terrible year playing a terrible G'Town team at MSG still drew a huge crowd. UCF vs. Houston while both teams are awful would be empty...you could hear a pin drop. It's not just how many teams you get in the tourney, it's the prestige and the namesake. People know Big East. People know G'Town, Nova, St. John's, etc. No one cares about UCF or Houston or especially Tulane or Tulsa (even if they are solid). The Big East has schools in basketball hotbeds along the Eastern seaboard for the most part. The AAC is a football conference first and basketball second. There's another difference. We clearly put hoops first and have the tradition. You seem totally sold on UConn, a team that has completely fallen off and has Ollie on the hotseat especially if they miss the tourney again. Can they make it this year? Sure, but the odds are against them. It's not just injuries, look at their past 3 seasons. They have to tamper with borderline top 150 recruits now to land them. Under Calhoun they landed pretty much whatever they wanted. That is very telling. Once again their football is pathetic, but they are all-in. Will go down as one of the dumbest decisions in NCAA history.

UConn got whoever they wanted? They recruited well, but not incredibly. I mean they were #8 in 2009 and #20 in 2010(by ESPN's ratings). But in all the other years 2007-2013- not in top 25. Definitely not they landed pretty much whatever they wanted.

Injuries totally derailed UConn last year. 2 years ago, they made the NCAA tourney. I'm not totally sold on them, but I think calling them mediocre to bad is going too far right now.

And what's going to really elevate the AAC is going to be Wichita. Having that extra really good team is going to make a huge difference. 2 things. Going to give some teams a chance at a top 25(10) win. But also make it where the schedule isn't double round robin, which makes a huge difference.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby marquette » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:53 pm

I'm pretty sure UConn was healthy when they lost to Wagner and Northeastern but sure, injuries were the only problem.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby Savannah Jay » Tue Oct 03, 2017 4:12 pm

I guess nothing underscores the difference between the Big East and the AAAAC (I am contrasting here, Stever, not comparing) than the expectations of the new teams joining. When X, Butler and Creighton joined the Big East, we were not going to be the best teams in the league or expected to elevate the league merely by joining. The AAAAC, however, is expecting Wichita to come in and be its marquee team day 1 because, well, they need them to be...

That is all.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby MullinMayhem » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:52 am

Savannah Jay wrote:I guess nothing underscores the difference between the Big East and the AAAAC (I am contrasting here, Stever, not comparing) than the expectations of the new teams joining. When X, Butler and Creighton joined the Big East, we were not going to be the best teams in the league or expected to elevate the league merely by joining. The AAAAC, however, is expecting Wichita to come in and be its marquee team day 1 because, well, they need them to be...

That is all.


Good point. Yes the AAC is a step up in hoops for Wichita over the MVC. But that doesn't mean they will be this dominating force. Look at Creighton...for as great a program as they are they would win 30 games every year and completely manhandle the conference only getting contested by Wichita State usually in the MVC. Then they came to the Big East where they have been successful but now they are playing much better teams and they aren't going to win 30 games every year. They used to be ranked every year practically in the MVC, but with the increase in competition they haven't been ranked as much. Again, Creighton has been a fantastic add and they are a great program but it just goes to show that Wichita State is not going to steamroll the AAC like it did the MVC most likely. Stever makes it seem like they just added a top 5 team as if Villanova just joined the AAC. Even though the AAC isn't particularly good, they are a big step up from the MVC and Wichita is no savior...that's my point. They will be good but not great and it's just another team that will give UConn fits and make it that much harder for them to make the tourney.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby stever20 » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:27 pm

MullinMayhem wrote:
Savannah Jay wrote:I guess nothing underscores the difference between the Big East and the AAAAC (I am contrasting here, Stever, not comparing) than the expectations of the new teams joining. When X, Butler and Creighton joined the Big East, we were not going to be the best teams in the league or expected to elevate the league merely by joining. The AAAAC, however, is expecting Wichita to come in and be its marquee team day 1 because, well, they need them to be...

That is all.


Good point. Yes the AAC is a step up in hoops for Wichita over the MVC. But that doesn't mean they will be this dominating force. Look at Creighton...for as great a program as they are they would win 30 games every year and completely manhandle the conference only getting contested by Wichita State usually in the MVC. Then they came to the Big East where they have been successful but now they are playing much better teams and they aren't going to win 30 games every year. They used to be ranked every year practically in the MVC, but with the increase in competition they haven't been ranked as much. Again, Creighton has been a fantastic add and they are a great program but it just goes to show that Wichita State is not going to steamroll the AAC like it did the MVC most likely. Stever makes it seem like they just added a top 5 team as if Villanova just joined the AAC. Even though the AAC isn't particularly good, they are a big step up from the MVC and Wichita is no savior...that's my point. They will be good but not great and it's just another team that will give UConn fits and make it that much harder for them to make the tourney.

The thing with the AAC is similar to what Creighton was like their 1st year, the AAC is adding a team that most people expect to be in the top 10-15 this year. What saved the Big East that first year quite frankly WAS Creighton. If Creighton had been mediocre, the perception would have been incredibly bad for the Big East. Especially given what happened in the AAC with Uconn winning the title.

What adding Wichita does for UConn is up the conferences SOS. The conference has a very real shot to get at least 4 teams in the tourney. Very real shot. Last year they had 2 teams make it in SMU and Cincy, plus Wichita made it out of the MVC. They had 2 of the first 16 teams outside the tournament.

Like what Jon Rothstein said-This is a huge season for the AAC. Massive opportunity to gain national respect. Have to get at least four NCAA bids to move the needle.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby GumbyDamnit! » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:24 pm

Savannah Jay wrote:I guess nothing underscores the difference between the Big East and the AAAAC (I am contrasting here, Stever, not comparing) than the expectations of the new teams joining. When X, Butler and Creighton joined the Big East, we were not going to be the best teams in the league or expected to elevate the league merely by joining. The AAAAC, however, is expecting Wichita to come in and be its marquee team day 1 because, well, they need them to be...

That is all.


Perhaps not to the extent of the Wich St. but I do recall some decent hype surrounding Creighton in year 1. I believe they were picked to be 3rd in the league preseason (behind Marq and G'town if I remember correctly). And they did finish 2nd in conference and had the NPOY. I do agree that much is being placed on the shoulders of the Shockers. Like CU as well they are a roster that is expecting a large amount of turnover from year 1 to year 2. So if they don't make their mark this year it may be a couple of years for them to be a top program.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby mel ott » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:49 pm

MullinMayhem wrote:
Savannah Jay wrote:I guess nothing underscores the difference between the Big East and the AAAAC (I am contrasting here, Stever, not comparing) than the expectations of the new teams joining. When X, Butler and Creighton joined the Big East, we were not going to be the best teams in the league or expected to elevate the league merely by joining. The AAAAC, however, is expecting Wichita to come in and be its marquee team day 1 because, well, they need them to be...

That is all.


Good point. Yes the AAC is a step up in hoops for Wichita over the MVC. But that doesn't mean they will be this dominating force. Look at Creighton...for as great a program as they are they would win 30 games every year and completely manhandle the conference only getting contested by Wichita State usually in the MVC. Then they came to the Big East where they have been successful but now they are playing much better teams and they aren't going to win 30 games every year. They used to be ranked every year practically in the MVC, but with the increase in competition they haven't been ranked as much. Again, Creighton has been a fantastic add and they are a great program but it just goes to show that Wichita State is not going to steamroll the AAC like it did the MVC most likely. Stever makes it seem like they just added a top 5 team as if Villanova just joined the AAC. Even though the AAC isn't particularly good, they are a big step up from the MVC and Wichita is no savior...that's my point. They will be good but not great and it's just another team that will give UConn fits and make it that much harder for them to make the tourney.


I don't disagree with your main point. However, there are some key points to address about the MVC in the past 10-15 years. First, Creighton did not win 30 games a year in the MVC and the competition was tough. Seocndly,, when the Valley was in its prime in the 90-2010 there were quality teams and the Valley would get multiple bids (2-4 2-3 normal) during this time. So Illinois, Ill, State, WSU, UNI, CU were quality teams.

The key ingredient for Creighton is moving to the Big East ( and along with X and Butler) being able to recruit at a much higher level.

This is still a major move by WSU since the Valley is really a one and done league. Not so back 10 years ago.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby MullinMayhem » Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:02 am

mel ott wrote:
MullinMayhem wrote:
Savannah Jay wrote:I guess nothing underscores the difference between the Big East and the AAAAC (I am contrasting here, Stever, not comparing) than the expectations of the new teams joining. When X, Butler and Creighton joined the Big East, we were not going to be the best teams in the league or expected to elevate the league merely by joining. The AAAAC, however, is expecting Wichita to come in and be its marquee team day 1 because, well, they need them to be...

That is all.


Good point. Yes the AAC is a step up in hoops for Wichita over the MVC. But that doesn't mean they will be this dominating force. Look at Creighton...for as great a program as they are they would win 30 games every year and completely manhandle the conference only getting contested by Wichita State usually in the MVC. Then they came to the Big East where they have been successful but now they are playing much better teams and they aren't going to win 30 games every year. They used to be ranked every year practically in the MVC, but with the increase in competition they haven't been ranked as much. Again, Creighton has been a fantastic add and they are a great program but it just goes to show that Wichita State is not going to steamroll the AAC like it did the MVC most likely. Stever makes it seem like they just added a top 5 team as if Villanova just joined the AAC. Even though the AAC isn't particularly good, they are a big step up from the MVC and Wichita is no savior...that's my point. They will be good but not great and it's just another team that will give UConn fits and make it that much harder for them to make the tourney.


I don't disagree with your main point. However, there are some key points to address about the MVC in the past 10-15 years. First, Creighton did not win 30 games a year in the MVC and the competition was tough. Seocndly,, when the Valley was in its prime in the 90-2010 there were quality teams and the Valley would get multiple bids (2-4 2-3 normal) during this time. So Illinois, Ill, State, WSU, UNI, CU were quality teams.

The key ingredient for Creighton is moving to the Big East ( and along with X and Butler) being able to recruit at a much higher level.

This is still a major move by WSU since the Valley is really a one and done league. Not so back 10 years ago.


Apologies, may have exaggerated a bit to make my point. What I was trying to imply was that if you have a great mid major team dominating a mid major conference, they will usually have a great record and they may have a misleading ranking suggesting they are better than they are. For example, Gonzaga is a great mid major program...they also fill up on cupcakes most of the year. Of course they can hang with the big boys, but take them out of the conference, put them in the ACC and I guarantee you they take a big step back. They may still be good but I wouldn't expect to see them in the top 10 anymore and they would spend a lot of time unranked. Teams like Duke are so great and notable, because they don't fill up on cupcakes to get their impressive record in a poor conference, they consistently dominate a great conference. So Wichita State IMO is a bit of a paper tiger. They are definitely going to be good, but Cincy, UConn (as mediocre as they are now), Memphis are not Southern Illinois, Illinois State, or UNI. They will be blemished and that's what happens when you move up a conference. The record and ranking won't be as pretty as they were in the MVC.
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby Jet915 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:33 pm

A nice breakdown of what constitutes a major conference per John Gasaway.

https://johngasaway.com/2017/10/09/there-are-still-six-major-conferences/
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Re: The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

Postby milksteak » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:00 am

Stever has been awfully absent from the board recently. Might have something to do with the AAC’s 14-3 record, which includes losses to Morgan State and Lamar. :lol:
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