The AAAAAAAC and Advanced Marketing (or Self-Kidding)

[billyjack]

The AAC with its American name has a ton of range to have fun and market itself better. Marketing is just a way to sell your product better, to convince people to pay attention through effective imagery or slogans or brashness or humility.

The AAC logo, etc, could work off old Revolutionary imagery, because really what they hope to do is upset the college football applecart... like have an alternate logo of the "Join Or Die" cut-snake flag, but substitute AAC teams in place of the 13 colonies' names. Their conference slogans should be "Don't Give Up The Ship" or "World Turned Upside Down"... poke fun at the "P5" while having some fun themselves. Huge missed opportunities. It must be a football-mindset alpha-dog thing that holds them back.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Rothstein had suggestion of the AAC getting a scheduling arrangement with the A10. Judging by the perceptions and how conferences schedule with their scheduling arrangements, it's clear there is distinction between the ACC, B1G, Big 12, Big East, PAC-12 and SEC, followed by the AAC/A-10 grouping.

[CrawfishBucket]

Rothstein had suggestion of the AAC getting a scheduling arrangement with the A10. Judging by the perceptions and how conferences schedule with their scheduling arrangements, it's clear there is distinction between the ACC, B1G, Big 12, Big East, PAC-12 and SEC, followed by the AAC/A-10 grouping.

I don't think anyone honestly believes that the American is on the same level as the A10. A series between them would benefit the A10. Their two best programs just lost their coaches. The A10 wishes they could have any one of a number of those schools as their flagship (UConn, Wichita, Memphis, Temple, etc). Its really not that close. Rothstein says a lot of crazy stuff.

That being said, next year is a new year. The fun thing about college basketball is perceptions don't make the tournament. Thr Flyers under Grant will be completely different than under Archie. The old Rice coach seems to fit in at VCU but I'm not sold on them either. The Rams just lost a big piece this week.

The Mark Fews and Gregg Marshalls are the real gems of College basketball.

[billyjack]

Rothstein had suggestion of the AAC getting a scheduling arrangement with the A10. Judging by the perceptions and how conferences schedule with their scheduling arrangements, it's clear there is distinction between the ACC, B1G, Big 12, Big East, PAC-12 and SEC, followed by the AAC/A-10 grouping.

I don't think anyone honestly believes that the American is on the same level as the A10. A series between them would benefit the A10. Their two best programs just lost their coaches. The A10 wishes they could have any one of a number of those schools as their flagship (UConn, Wichita, Memphis, Temple, etc). Its really not that close. Rothstein says a lot of crazy stuff.

That being said, next year is a new year. The fun thing about college basketball is perceptions don't make the tournament. Thr Flyers under Grant will be completely different than under Archie. The old Rice coach seems to fit in at VCU but I'm not sold on them either. The Rams just lost a big piece this week.

The Mark Fews and Gregg Marshalls are the real gems of College basketball.

The A-10 and the American are equal in perception and reality. And that's being kind to the American. Twice in the last 3 years, the AAC got 2 bids.

NCAA's:
American: 2, 4, 2, 4. - average of 3 bids over last 4 seasons.
A-10: 3, 3, 3, 6, 5. - average of 3.75 bids over last 4 seasons, and 4 bids over last 5 seasons.
Last 3 seasons the A-10 has more NCAA wins than the AAC.

[milksteak]

I'd say the AAC is better than the A-10 but not by much. The top half of the conference is probably better than the top half of the A-10, but the bottom halves of both conferences are horrible.

Here are the conference ranks in KenPom since the AAC's founding...
2014: AAC (7th), A-10 (8th)
2015: AAC (9th), A-10 (7th)
2016: AAC (7th), A-10 (8th)
2017: AAC (7th), A-10 (8th)

Keep in mind, a solid Louisville team was in the AAC for that first year.

[Edrick]

I don't think anyone honestly believes that the American is on the same level as the A10. A series between them would benefit the A10. Their two best programs just lost their coaches. The A10 wishes they could have any one of a number of those schools as their flagship (UConn, Wichita, Memphis, Temple, etc). Its really not that close. Rothstein says a lot of crazy stuff.

2014: AAC 7th; A-10 8th (9.97,9.29)
2015: A-10 7th; AAC 9th (5.61, 3.42)
2016: AAC 7th; A-10 8th (8.16, 5.48)
2017: AAC 7th; A-10 8th (5.90, 3.95)

(Adding the numbers to show just how close they are)

http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=Amer&y=2017

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The AAC 'probably' has a slight edge on the 7th best conference, but it's not anything that could be described as definitive. And neither is really even remotely close to the Top 6. It would be appropriate for the two to pair, they are peer conferences. Adding the Mountain West to make a high-mid menage a trois, might make some sense too.

Side note: Both the AAC and A-10 have seen decline since the AAC's inaugural year.

[stever20]

Here's the problem with your comparison. The AAC stronger- and now they're picking up Wichita- a team in the 4 years went 6,13,13,8 in Ken Pom. So that's going to explode the margin that much greater.

Same thing with the AAC with the tourney bids. You say they lose Louisville in 2014. true, but pick up Wichita. Oh, and Tulsa went from CUSA in 2014 as well.

Oh, and if you want to go back 5 years- in 2013- Memphis, Cincy, Temple, and Wichita all made the tourney. And you really are going to use 2013 A10 with Butler and Temple as being a case for the A10?

So the teams that make the conferences currently-
AAC 19 bids in 5 years- 3.8 per year
A10 4 in '13- SLU, VCU, LaSalle, Davidson, 6 in 14, 3 in the last 3 years. So total of 19 total..... 3.8 per year....

BUT- lets look at the average seeds of those teams....
AAC-
13 Temple 9, Cincy 10, Memphis 6, Wichita 9- total of 34 or avg of 8.5 per team
14 Wichita 1, Cincy 5, UConn 7, Memphis 8- total of 21 or avg of 5.25 per team
15 SMU 6, Cincy 8, Wichita 7 - total of 21 or avg of 7 per team
16 Wichita 11, Temple 10, Cincy 9, Tulsa 11, UConn 9- total of 50 or avg of 10 per team
17 SMU 6, Cincy 6, Wichita 10- total of 22 or avg of 7.33 per team
so in 5 years total of 148 for 19 spots- or avg of 7.79 per team

A10-
13 SLU 4, VCU 5, La Salle 13, Davidson 14- total of 36 or avg of 9 per team
14 SLU 5, VCU 5, GW 9, St Joe's 10, Dayton 11, UMass 6- total of 46 or avg of 7.67 per team
15 Davidson 10, Dayton 11, VCU 7- total of 28 or avg of 9.33 per team
16 VCU 10, Dayton 7, St Joe's 8- total of 25 or avg of 8.33 per team
17 Dayton 7, VCU 10, RI 11- total of 28 or avg of 9.33 per team
so in 5 years total of 163 for 19 spots- or avg of 8.58 per team

The A10 has done it with a much more favorable schedule with 14 teams. AAC will have 12 for the first time next season- we'll see what kind of impact that really makes.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Here's the problem with your comparison. The AAC stronger- and now they're picking up Wichita- a team in the 4 years went 6,13,13,8 in Ken Pom. So that's going to explode the margin that much greater.

Same thing with the AAC with the tourney bids. You say they lose Louisville in 2014. true, but pick up Wichita. Oh, and Tulsa went from CUSA in 2014 as well.

Oh, and if you want to go back 5 years- in 2013- Memphis, Cincy, Temple, and Wichita all made the tourney. And you really are going to use 2013 A10 with Butler and Temple as being a case for the A10?

So the teams that make the conferences currently-
AAC 19 bids in 5 years- 3.8 per year
A10 4 in '13- SLU, VCU, LaSalle, Davidson, 6 in 14, 3 in the last 3 years. So total of 19 total..... 3.8 per year....

BUT- lets look at the average seeds of those teams....
AAC-
13 Temple 9, Cincy 10, Memphis 6, Wichita 9- total of 34 or avg of 8.5 per team
14 Wichita 1, Cincy 5, UConn 7, Memphis 8- total of 21 or avg of 5.25 per team
15 SMU 6, Cincy 8, Wichita 7 - total of 21 or avg of 7 per team
16 Wichita 11, Temple 10, Cincy 9, Tulsa 11, UConn 9- total of 50 or avg of 10 per team
17 SMU 6, Cincy 6, Wichita 10- total of 22 or avg of 7.33 per team
so in 5 years total of 148 for 19 spots- or avg of 7.79 per team

A10-
13 SLU 4, VCU 5, La Salle 13, Davidson 14- total of 36 or avg of 9 per team
14 SLU 5, VCU 5, GW 9, St Joe's 10, Dayton 11, UMass 6- total of 46 or avg of 7.67 per team
15 Davidson 10, Dayton 11, VCU 7- total of 28 or avg of 9.33 per team
16 VCU 10, Dayton 7, St Joe's 8- total of 25 or avg of 8.33 per team
17 Dayton 7, VCU 10, RI 11- total of 28 or avg of 9.33 per team
so in 5 years total of 163 for 19 spots- or avg of 8.58 per team

The A10 has done it with a much more favorable schedule with 14 teams. AAC will have 12 for the first time next season- we'll see what kind of impact that really makes.

And yet, with all of those metrics and all of those statistics, the Atlantic-10 still had more victories in tournament-play than the American over the past three years. In that time, the A-10 has five tournament wins to the American's three. The fact of the matter is that, while the American probably should be better in basketball than the A-10, they have not been (and the A-10 has actually had more success in the past three seasons).

And before this get's into a "not giving the American it's due respect" argument, the American is getting judged and critiqued for what they are: outside the top-6 basketball conferences and in that next tier with the A-10. They don't have a strong conference attendance. They don't have a scheduling matchup with another conference. They don't win games in March (or apparently get teams to the tournament). Will Wichita help with that? Absolutely. However, Memphis, UConn, Temple and Tulsa are all down from traditional expectations. UCF and SMU are playing beyond their historical and traditional performances. By the law of averages and balance - which has been argued by so many on here for quite some time - it will be impossible for UCF and SMU to remain at the top of the league AND for Memphis, UConn, Temple and Tulsa to return to the top of the league with Cincinnati and Wichita. There needs to be a middle and a bottom (where USF, ECU and Tulane will always remain).

The Big East is superior to the American and the A-10 because of their media contract (there is a demand for their content and product), their historical and current success in basketball, their commitment to basketball first within their athletic programs, their supportive fan bases and the big media markets that support big-time basketball. There really never should have been a comparison between the two IMHO.

[stever20]

Here's the problem with your comparison. The AAC stronger- and now they're picking up Wichita- a team in the 4 years went 6,13,13,8 in Ken Pom. So that's going to explode the margin that much greater.

Same thing with the AAC with the tourney bids. You say they lose Louisville in 2014. true, but pick up Wichita. Oh, and Tulsa went from CUSA in 2014 as well.

Oh, and if you want to go back 5 years- in 2013- Memphis, Cincy, Temple, and Wichita all made the tourney. And you really are going to use 2013 A10 with Butler and Temple as being a case for the A10?

So the teams that make the conferences currently-
AAC 19 bids in 5 years- 3.8 per year
A10 4 in '13- SLU, VCU, LaSalle, Davidson, 6 in 14, 3 in the last 3 years. So total of 19 total..... 3.8 per year....

BUT- lets look at the average seeds of those teams....
AAC-
13 Temple 9, Cincy 10, Memphis 6, Wichita 9- total of 34 or avg of 8.5 per team
14 Wichita 1, Cincy 5, UConn 7, Memphis 8- total of 21 or avg of 5.25 per team
15 SMU 6, Cincy 8, Wichita 7 - total of 21 or avg of 7 per team
16 Wichita 11, Temple 10, Cincy 9, Tulsa 11, UConn 9- total of 50 or avg of 10 per team
17 SMU 6, Cincy 6, Wichita 10- total of 22 or avg of 7.33 per team
so in 5 years total of 148 for 19 spots- or avg of 7.79 per team

A10-
13 SLU 4, VCU 5, La Salle 13, Davidson 14- total of 36 or avg of 9 per team
14 SLU 5, VCU 5, GW 9, St Joe's 10, Dayton 11, UMass 6- total of 46 or avg of 7.67 per team
15 Davidson 10, Dayton 11, VCU 7- total of 28 or avg of 9.33 per team
16 VCU 10, Dayton 7, St Joe's 8- total of 25 or avg of 8.33 per team
17 Dayton 7, VCU 10, RI 11- total of 28 or avg of 9.33 per team
so in 5 years total of 163 for 19 spots- or avg of 8.58 per team

The A10 has done it with a much more favorable schedule with 14 teams. AAC will have 12 for the first time next season- we'll see what kind of impact that really makes.

And yet, with all of those metrics and all of those statistics, the Atlantic-10 still had more victories in tournament-play than the American over the past three years. In that time, the A-10 has five tournament wins to the American's three. The fact of the matter is that, while the American probably should be better in basketball than the A-10, they have not been (and the A-10 has actually had more success in the past three seasons).

And before this get's into a "not giving the American it's due respect" argument, the American is getting judged and critiqued for what they are: outside the top-6 basketball conferences and in that next tier with the A-10. They don't have a strong conference attendance. They don't have a scheduling matchup with another conference. They don't win games in March (or apparently get teams to the tournament). Will Wichita help with that? Absolutely. However, Memphis, UConn, Temple and Tulsa are all down from traditional expectations. UCF and SMU are playing beyond their historical and traditional performances. By the law of averages and balance - which has been argued by so many on here for quite some time - it will be impossible for UCF and SMU to remain at the top of the league AND for Memphis, UConn, Temple and Tulsa to return to the top of the league with Cincinnati and Wichita. There needs to be a middle and a bottom (where USF, ECU and Tulane will always remain).

The Big East is superior to the American and the A-10 because of their media contract (there is a demand for their content and product), their historical and current success in basketball, their commitment to basketball first within their athletic programs, their supportive fan bases and the big media markets that support big-time basketball. There really never should have been a comparison between the two IMHO.

but then you have to add to the AAC's win totals what Wichita brings. Last 3 years they have 5 wins all to themselves. You want to sweep that under the rug, but you can't. Like it or not, but the AAC does have Wichita now. You can't change that. And the AAC with Wichita is a very different animal. Not just what Wichita brings, but the fact that it's going to allow the AAC to schedule in a way which will help them get extra teams in the tourney.

The AAC now is clearly ahead of the A10. there was a 6 pt gap between the P12 and A10 last year. The AAC without Wichita was 2 points better than the A10, 4 points behind the P12. That gap will close dramatically this year. The AAC will be much closer to the bottom of the P6 than they will the A10. The middle can improve a whole hell of a lot from what they've been doing. I just don't think it would be all that surprising if we see a year where the AAC is better than one of the P6 conferences.

[Xavier4036]

Stever I didn't read a thing you wrote.

What I would like to know is why a claim you are a Georgetown and Big East fan yet write paragraphs upon paragraphs talking about the American?

The American sucks. They get 2 or 3 teams in the tournament each year. They have nothing to do with the Big East. The Big East is a consistently a Top 3 conference in the country.

Your team just got a new coach, a Hall of Famer no less. And you are spending your time talking about the AAC non-stop. The AAC has very little to no effect on the Big East. This is a Big East message board.