What's Up With Gonzaga?

[Bill Marsh]

I agree, I would love to add Gonzaga but supposedly the east coast schools are not in favor of it. You would have to do smart scheduling, ie softball/baseball travel together but I'm sure Gonzaga would say yes if offered.

No softball for the Zags. But yes, their presidents are against it - at least for now - which means Gonzaga's president won't publicly come out and say he supports such a move until he knows most of them are on board (he would get railed for not caring about student-athletes). With smart scheduling the east coast schools add 5 flights per year, and honestly its probably only 3 added flights as most fly everywhere for basketball anyway. Each school would sacrifice a road game in this scenario.

People are worried about what happens if Gonzaga falls off as well, which while fair, doesn't seem like they will become a DePaul anytime soon. Plus they will retain their PNW and International recruiting while trading So Cal for a region that spans from the Midwest to Northeast. They will have access to some of the most fertile recruiting grounds without directly competing at home with any current BIG EAST member.

Even if/when Gonzaga falls off, it's still only one road trip per year - a road trip that can be piggy backed on a trip to Omaha, which gets you half way there, a road trip for which other efficiencies can be found like scheduling men/women the same weekend so they can fly together on the same charter.

[NJRedman]

When the Big East first expanded Gonzaga should have been a top priority for addition. I think the Presidents are now kicking themselves for not pulling the trigger on an invite. The identity of a basketball only catholic school with national brand appeal perfectly aligned with our identity.

If we are to expand there are really only 2 options... Gonzaga and UConn. No thank you to anyone else!

I highly doubt they are kicking themselves for not inviting a team in Spokane WA. Kind of far to send your soccer and volleyball teams.

[NJRedman]

I agree, I would love to add Gonzaga but supposedly the east coast schools are not in favor of it. You would have to do smart scheduling, ie softball/baseball travel together but I'm sure Gonzaga would say yes if offered.

No softball for the Zags. But yes, their presidents are against it - at least for now - which means Gonzaga's president won't publicly come out and say he supports such a move until he knows most of them are on board (he would get railed for not caring about student-athletes). With smart scheduling the east coast schools add 5 flights per year, and honestly its probably only 3 added flights as most fly everywhere for basketball anyway. Each school would sacrifice a road game in this scenario.

People are worried about what happens if Gonzaga falls off as well, which while fair, doesn't seem like they will become a DePaul anytime soon. Plus they will retain their PNW and International recruiting while trading So Cal for a region that spans from the Midwest to Northeast. They will have access to some of the most fertile recruiting grounds without directly competing at home with any current BIG EAST member.

Even if/when Gonzaga falls off, it's still only one road trip per year - a road trip that can be piggy backed on a trip to Omaha, which gets you half way there, a road trip for which other efficiencies can be found like scheduling men/women the same weekend so they can fly together on the same charter.

This is a decision that lasts longer than a decade. It's a long term decision. What does Gonzaga bring of value if/when they are a bottom dweller? What do we get by going to Spokane Washington? Don't say they wont ever be a last place team. Every multi-national champ program has hit the skids. U San Fran won two national titles, Cincy won 2, Oregon won the first and then never made it back to the final four until this year. Current success isn't a guarantee of future results.

Gonzaga falls off in 10-15 years then what? We have a DePaul in the middle of nowhere on the opposite coast of half our schools. How does that help us? Think like a school president, not a fan.

[Bill Marsh]

You could still add Gonzaga today. Fact of the matter is that travel costs do not increase that much for each school already in the BIG EAST. Heres a quick overview

Gonzaga's sports:

Mens
[*]Baseball
[*]Basketball
[*]Cross Country
[*]Golf
[*]Rowing - in WIRA Conf.
[*]Soccer
[*]Tennis
[*]Track and Field (Independent)

Women's
[*]Basketball
[*]Cross Country
[*]Golf
[*]Rowing - in WIRA Conf and WCC
[*]Soccer
[*]Tennis
[*]Track and Field (Independent)
[*]Volleyball

Travel
So for travel sports were looking at MBB, WBB, Baseball, Volleyball, WSOC, and MSCOC. Golf, Tennis, and XC are tournament events, which Gonzaga was likely already flying to.

Assuming MBB stays Round Robin (and WBB for sake of argument - but it doesn't have to). 2 flights

Soccers - 1 flight (either share or alternate each year) (also keep the same team from going to Creighton and Gonzaga in the same year)

Volleyball - 1 flight - piggyback off of a Central Time zone team
Baseball - 1 flight every other year (alternate year with Creighton).

So we can knock Current schools travel concerns off (even if Gonzaga has to pay a very small subsidy for first few years while adjustments are made to budgets).

Institutional Fit
Private, right sized, connections to Creighton, Marquette, Xavier, and Georgetown. Committed to basketball facilities. The McCarthey Athletic Center is a 6k seater that cost approx 35 million in today's dollars. Have the access to Spokane Area - 12k.

Media Market
Gonzaga is a nationally known brand that delivers (#73) Spokane and makes inroads to (#14) Seattle. While they may not deliver the state of Washington (approx 7m pop). They are on the radar their, on the mind of everyone in the Pacific Northwest, and have a national reputation and brand.

Another pro Fox has a new time slot available.

Geography
This is where they "fail" the test for the BIG EAST school side. The name itself doesn't help. Time zones are hard. If presidents can get past this then we have a deal. From an athletics sense, its probably one less road trip OOC game for each team - no big loss there for BIG EAST schools. Time zones for Gonzaga are hard though. They may have to watch their team at 5 or 6pm when on the road and be open to having 6pm tips at home.

When Gonzaga goes through a rough patch in basketball - we all do, this road trips could suck for them and us. Granted each school that is clearly committed (read everyone but DePaul) they should only have 1-2 years of rebuild and trend competitively after.

Cost of Transition

The exit fee for the WCC conference is unknown. It likely ranges from 1 million to 6 million (based on A10 and MAC exits over the years). For comparison the AAC's with 18 months notice lies between 5 and 10 million.

Second is the loss of tourney credits, unless the BIG EAST is going to share, this could put them in a bind in the short term as this is another addition say 2-3 million a year they are missing out on for the first couple years, this is entirely recoverable though as even in down years in the BIG EAST they should receive more than the WCC (long term outlook - past 6 years in the CONF).

Additional Revenue

FOX Contract will pay at least the 4.6m schools are making now, which should cover a majority of the revenue lost to credits. BIG EAST can loan them the money for the WCC exit fee (like it did Butler and Xavier).

Summary/TLDR:
Gonzaga needs to keep telling BIG EAST presidents they don't care about geography and having another WCC member tag along. Gonzaga itself moves the needle of revenue, prestige, and fits in all places but geography. Current Presidents will decide based on perception of geography (dilution of the brand) being greater/lesser than increased brand awareness, strength, and another revenue generating program.

Good analysis.

With regard to the time of games, check their schedule. They already play many weekday games at 6:00, which broadcast in the East at 9:00. One was even at 5:00. Weekend game tims don't matter. I don't see a. Problem with this.

I'll also note that baseball doesn't play home & home every year.

The Ivy League solved this travel issue decades ago when travel was by bus or train. A 360 mile trip from Penn to Dartmouth was 6-8 hours depending on traffic in urban centers. Could be longer. Really no different than a NY-Spokane flight at 500-600 mph. The Ivies schedule Fri/Sun games so they get 2 for 1. An Omaha/Spokane trip could be done the same way. The PAC-12 does the same thing except that they do Thus/Sat. A paired trip on Sat/Mon works just as well. I know the time zones are an additional factor, but if they schedule the games on East Coast times and travel on East Coast times, them even time zones are not a factor. This is really an issue for the Gonzaga kids, not for everyone else.

The presidents balked initially, but decisions were made quickly and there really wasn't much time to study the issue. There is time now for an intelligent analysis. There are obstacles, but they really can be overcome.

[Bill Marsh]

No softball for the Zags. But yes, their presidents are against it - at least for now - which means Gonzaga's president won't publicly come out and say he supports such a move until he knows most of them are on board (he would get railed for not caring about student-athletes). With smart scheduling the east coast schools add 5 flights per year, and honestly its probably only 3 added flights as most fly everywhere for basketball anyway. Each school would sacrifice a road game in this scenario.

People are worried about what happens if Gonzaga falls off as well, which while fair, doesn't seem like they will become a DePaul anytime soon. Plus they will retain their PNW and International recruiting while trading So Cal for a region that spans from the Midwest to Northeast. They will have access to some of the most fertile recruiting grounds without directly competing at home with any current BIG EAST member.

Even if/when Gonzaga falls off, it's still only one road trip per year - a road trip that can be piggy backed on a trip to Omaha, which gets you half way there, a road trip for which other efficiencies can be found like scheduling men/women the same weekend so they can fly together on the same charter.

This is a decision that lasts longer than a decade. It's a long term decision. What does Gonzaga bring of value if/when they are a bottom dweller? What do we get by going to Spokane Washington? Don't say they wont ever be a last place team. Every multi-national champ program has hit the skids. U San Fran won two national titles, Cincy won 2, Oregon won the first and then never made it back to the final four until this year. Current success isn't a guarantee of future results.

Gonzaga falls off in 10-15 years then what? We have a DePaul in the middle of nowhere on the opposite coast of half our schools. How does that help us? Think like a school president, not a fan.

It's still only one road trip a year.

I give the presidents more credit for being problem solvers than just being reactively negative. Gonzaga brings what every other school brings - a partner who shares common values and a commitment to excellence in both academics and athletics. As we've seen in expansion discussions, that is extremely rare. They already had to go beyond the original footprint to find such a partner when they included Creighton. If there was someone within the footprint, we wouldn't be talking about Gonzaga.

Every multi-champ program has not hit the skids in the way that USF did. I won't bother to list them because you can do that if you want. But even if they experience down times, the challenges of one long road trip a year for 4-5 teams a year are way overblown.

[NJRedman]

Even if/when Gonzaga falls off, it's still only one road trip per year - a road trip that can be piggy backed on a trip to Omaha, which gets you half way there, a road trip for which other efficiencies can be found like scheduling men/women the same weekend so they can fly together on the same charter.

This is a decision that lasts longer than a decade. It's a long term decision. What does Gonzaga bring of value if/when they are a bottom dweller? What do we get by going to Spokane Washington? Don't say they wont ever be a last place team. Every multi-national champ program has hit the skids. U San Fran won two national titles, Cincy won 2, Oregon won the first and then never made it back to the final four until this year. Current success isn't a guarantee of future results.

Gonzaga falls off in 10-15 years then what? We have a DePaul in the middle of nowhere on the opposite coast of half our schools. How does that help us? Think like a school president, not a fan.

It's still only one road trip a year.

I give the presidents more credit for being problem solvers than just being reactively negative. Gonzaga brings what every other school brings - a partner who shares common values and a commitment to excellence in both academics and athletics. As we've seen in expansion discussions, that is extremely rare. They already had to go beyond the original footprint to find such a partner when they included Creighton. If there was someone within the footprint, we wouldn't be talking about Gonzaga.

Every multi-champ program has not hit the skids in the way that USF did. I won't bother to list them because you can do that if you want. But even if they experience down times, the challenges of one long road trip a year for 4-5 teams a year are way overblown.[/quote]

It being overblown is YOUR opinion. The decision makers disagree. It's more than just one road trip a year for 4-5 teams. It's about cutting a slice to the pie for a team who brings little value if/when they struggle. Yes, any school brings value when making multiple deep runs in the NCAA's. What do we get from a team in Spokane who goes 6-12 in conference? DePaul has a large TV market with valuable recruiting ground. Same with my Johnnies. Creighton has a large dedicated fanbase that always ranks high in attendance. What do the Zags have?

These are serious and legitimate questions and concerns. Going slightly outside of the footprint for Creighton isn't the same as blowing up the footprint for Gonzaga. Also Omaha is much easier to fly into than Spokane.

[phphphonograph]

It's still only one road trip a year.

I give the presidents more credit for being problem solvers than just being reactively negative. Gonzaga brings what every other school brings - a partner who shares common values and a commitment to excellence in both academics and athletics. As we've seen in expansion discussions, that is extremely rare. They already had to go beyond the original footprint to find such a partner when they included Creighton. If there was someone within the footprint, we wouldn't be talking about Gonzaga.

Every multi-champ program has not hit the skids in the way that USF did. I won't bother to list them because you can do that if you want. But even if they experience down times, the challenges of one long road trip a year for 4-5 teams a year are way overblown.

It being overblown is YOUR opinion. The decision makers disagree. It's more than just one road trip a year for 4-5 teams. It's about cutting a slice to the pie for a team who brings little value if/when they struggle. Yes, any school brings value when making multiple deep runs in the NCAA's. What do we get from a team in Spokane who goes 6-12 in conference? DePaul has a large TV market with valuable recruiting ground. Same with my Johnnies. Creighton has a large dedicated fanbase that always ranks high in attendance. What do the Zags have?

These are serious and legitimate questions and concerns. Going slightly outside of the footprint for Creighton isn't the same as blowing up the footprint for Gonzaga. Also Omaha is much easier to fly into than Spokane.

So if we think they have value for 10 years - which is a high possibility. I agree though, programs have ups and downs, then the question is the 10 years out of 40 when they are rebuilding or figuring out a transition or hire, do they still add value?

At some point then the BIG EAST has to look if they need to span the gap or fill in geographic holes (from Creighton to Gonzaga). Say Denver, St. Louis, BYU. None of those move the needle and barring St. Louis's revival don't have the commitment to basketball and institutional fit. At that point adding Denver is practically the same at adding Detroit or Duquesne... a media market. Except that one comes with Gonzaga. Filling in the holes dilutes the brand either way if the institutions are not committed to the same vision.

There's pros and cons to adding Spokane. There are to every addition though. Thinking like a president at this moment, sure seems like the short term is favorable and long term seems to be neutral. Honestly, what may push the direction the BIG EAST goes is FOX Sports and what they want. FOX may love to steal a "brand" from ESPN, they've sure been doing it a lot lately with talent. Fact is, FOX viewership is on the rise while ESPN can't afford to pay the bills. FOX may see a similar fate one day, but milking the dollar while you can is still a factor.

[Bill Marsh]

Even if/when Gonzaga falls off, it's still only one road trip per year - a road trip that can be piggy backed on a trip to Omaha, which gets you half way there, a road trip for which other efficiencies can be found like scheduling men/women the same weekend so they can fly together on the same charter.

This is a decision that lasts longer than a decade. It's a long term decision. What does Gonzaga bring of value if/when they are a bottom dweller? What do we get by going to Spokane Washington? Don't say they wont ever be a last place team. Every multi-national champ program has hit the skids. U San Fran won two national titles, Cincy won 2, Oregon won the first and then never made it back to the final four until this year. Current success isn't a guarantee of future results.

Gonzaga falls off in 10-15 years then what? We have a DePaul in the middle of nowhere on the opposite coast of half our schools. How does that help us? Think like a school president, not a fan.

It's still only one road trip a year.

I give the presidents more credit for being problem solvers than just being reactively negative. Gonzaga brings what every other school brings - a partner who shares common values and a commitment to excellence in both academics and athletics. As we've seen in expansion discussions, that is extremely rare. They already had to go beyond the original footprint to find such a partner when they included Creighton. If there was someone within the footprint, we wouldn't be talking about Gonzaga.

Every multi-champ program has not hit the skids in the way that USF did. I won't bother to list them because you can do that if you want. But even if they experience down times, the challenges of one long road trip a year for 4-5 teams a year are way overblown.

It being overblown is YOUR opinion. The decision makers disagree. It's more than just one road trip a year for 4-5 teams. It's about cutting a slice to the pie for a team who brings little value if/when they struggle. Yes, any school brings value when making multiple deep runs in the NCAA's. What do we get from a team in Spokane who goes 6-12 in conference? DePaul has a large TV market with valuable recruiting ground. Same with my Johnnies. Creighton has a large dedicated fanbase that always ranks high in attendance. What do the Zags have?

These are serious and legitimate questions and concerns. Going slightly outside of the footprint for Creighton isn't the same as blowing up the footprint for Gonzaga. Also Omaha is much easier to fly into than Spokane.

Of course it's my opinion,

Nonetheless, it's an opinion supported by fact. An earlier post presented the idea that each school would have to fly dozens of teams to Spokane every year. That's overblown. It's factually incorrect. It's typical of the exaggerations that are encountered on this topic.

The situation is treated as if it's unique. It isn't. The WAC spans 2100 air miles from McAllen, Texas, outside Brownsville, to Seattle, the same distance as NY to Spokane. But. Even more common were the trips of hundreds of miles in. The Ivy League, Big Ten, SEC, PAC-8, etc 50-100 years ago when transport was by bus or train. This is the 21st century when planes travel 10 times as fast as buses and even faster as compared with trains. Bus trips can take 6-10 hours over those distances. But they did it.

I said that travel is overblown. You disagree by citing TV markets, recruiting, and attendance. None of those have anything to do with travel issues, which are in fact overblown. as far as attendance I'd oncerned, Gonzaga sells out every game and has a waiting list of 1000 names. They have a civic arena available for the increased demand that Big East games would inevitably brings.

You're concerned about them making a down turn. Okay, give me a better candidate.

Omaha is easier to fly into than Spokane? I don't have any experience with either. But I do know that Spokane has an international airport and Omaha does not. So what makes one easier than the other? Regardless, the way to do this would be via charter, which makes ease of airport access irrelevant.

[NJRedman]

It's still only one road trip a year.

I give the presidents more credit for being problem solvers than just being reactively negative. Gonzaga brings what every other school brings - a partner who shares common values and a commitment to excellence in both academics and athletics. As we've seen in expansion discussions, that is extremely rare. They already had to go beyond the original footprint to find such a partner when they included Creighton. If there was someone within the footprint, we wouldn't be talking about Gonzaga.

Every multi-champ program has not hit the skids in the way that USF did. I won't bother to list them because you can do that if you want. But even if they experience down times, the challenges of one long road trip a year for 4-5 teams a year are way overblown.

It being overblown is YOUR opinion. The decision makers disagree. It's more than just one road trip a year for 4-5 teams. It's about cutting a slice to the pie for a team who brings little value if/when they struggle. Yes, any school brings value when making multiple deep runs in the NCAA's. What do we get from a team in Spokane who goes 6-12 in conference? DePaul has a large TV market with valuable recruiting ground. Same with my Johnnies. Creighton has a large dedicated fanbase that always ranks high in attendance. What do the Zags have?

These are serious and legitimate questions and concerns. Going slightly outside of the footprint for Creighton isn't the same as blowing up the footprint for Gonzaga. Also Omaha is much easier to fly into than Spokane.

Of course it's my opinion,

Nonetheless, it's an opinion supported by fact. An earlier post presented the idea that each school would have to fly dozens of teams to Spokane every year. That's overblown. It's factually incorrect. It's typical of the exaggerations that are encountered on this topic.

The situation is treated as if it's unique. It isn't. The WAC spans 2100 air miles from McAllen, Texas, outside Brownsville, to Seattle, the same distance as NY to Spokane. But. Even more common were the trips of hundreds of miles in. The Ivy League, Big Ten, SEC, PAC-8, etc 50-100 years ago when transport was by bus or train. This is the 21st century when planes travel 10 times as fast as buses and even faster as compared with trains. Bus trips can take 6-10 hours over those distances. But they did it.

I said that travel is overblown. You disagree by citing TV markets, recruiting, and attendance. None of those have anything to do with travel issues, which are in fact overblown. as far as attendance I'd oncerned, Gonzaga sells out every game and has a waiting list of 1000 names. They have a civic arena available for the increased demand that Big East games would inevitably brings.

You're concerned about them making a down turn. Okay, give me a better candidate.

Omaha is easier to fly into than Spokane? I don't have any experience with either. But I do know that Spokane has an international airport and Omaha does not. So what makes one easier than the other? Regardless, the way to do this would be via charter, which makes ease of airport access irrelevant.

You are talking about north south travel which isn't the same as east west travel which deals with crossing time zones. Speaking of time zones do we want Gonzaga hosting weeknight games at 4pm? Are they going to see out those games? Are they going to help the rest of the leagues ratings watching our local 7pm start times?

Also you act like the WAC is the norm. That is a conference of connivence made up of transient programs trying to stay at the D1 level. We are a power conference who has options. If your opinion was backed by fact it would just be fact, it is not fact. This discussion isn't new and has been hashed out every few months the last four years. You don't know anything we don't already know and you don't know more than the presidents who declined to add Gonzaga 5 years ago.

Yes, Spokane has an international airport without a single direct flight from NYC.

One more thing, those guys weren't traveling for Wednesday night games. Weekend games by train 100 years ago with much shorter schedules aren't that hard. Also i'd use a different analogy than the Ivy league, they are all very close to each other.

[Savannah Jay]

The situation is treated as if it's unique. It isn't. The WAC spans 2100 air miles from McAllen, Texas, outside Brownsville, to Seattle, the same distance as NY to Spokane. But. Even more common were the trips of hundreds of miles in. The Ivy League, Big Ten, SEC, PAC-8, etc 50-100 years ago when transport was by bus or train. This is the 21st century when planes travel 10 times as fast as buses and even faster as compared with trains. Bus trips can take 6-10 hours over those distances. But they did it.

Omaha is easier to fly into than Spokane? I don't have any experience with either. But I do know that Spokane has an international airport and Omaha does not. So what makes one easier than the other? Regardless, the way to do this would be via charter, which makes ease of airport access irrelevant.

I wonder how many of these schools that travel that far for games are happy to be doing so in their new world. I am sure few would complain out loud about it (though one of the Big 12 coaches did make a snarky comment about the "rivalry" with West Virginia). One of the benefits of charter flights was that kids didn't have to spend 10-12 hours round trip to play a game.

Relative to the "international airport" comment, there are many airports that call themselves an international airport because (I guess) that makes the city seem more like a destination or travel hub (or another reason I cannot articulate). I am guessing there are ZERO flights that leave Spokane and fly to a foreign country. They do probably have Delta flight xxx that flies to Seattle, then continues on to Canada, or Mexico, or Asia and this makes them an "international" airport. Tomorrow, I fly out of Savannah/Hilton Head International Airport which is just as laughable (we have 15 gates...). Omaha's airport is busier (by number of travelers) than Spokane Airport.