What is the definition of a blue blood program?

[Bill Marsh]

Blue bloods seem to mean programs that have been winning for a long time . . . and continue to win. How long is a long time? I guess that depends on how old you are.

Just to stoke the flames, here are my lists of the top ten teams from each generation - a generation being 20 years - beginning with the first national championship competition in the 1938 NIT. My emphasis is on national championships and Final Fours because that's what elite teams have to do to be considered elite.

1938-57

1. San Francisco
2. Kentucky
3. Oklahoma State
4. St John's
5. LIU
6. Kansas
7. Indiana
8. Holy Cross
9. LaSalle
10. Temple

1958-77

1. UCLA
2. Cincinnati
3. Ohio State
4. Kentucky
5. Marquette
6. North Carolina
7. Indiana
8. Cal-Berkeley
9. UTEP
10. Loyola-Chi

1978-97

1. Duke
2. North Carolina
3. Kentucky
4. Louisville
5. Indiana
6. Arkansas
7. Kansas
8. Georgetown
9. Michigan
10. UNLV

1998-17

1. UConn
2. Duke
3. North Carolina*
4. Kentucky*
5. Florida*
6. Michigan State
7. Kansas
8. Louisville
9. Syracuse
10. Villanova

* subject to change because team is still alive in this year's tournament

Only one school is on all 4 lists.

[billyjack]

Hey Bill M,
I'm going to adjust criteria to allow Providence to appear in the grouping from 1958 to 1977... so that means i favor number of years ranked, number of weeks ranked, number of NCAA appearances, and several advancements in the NCAA's including a minimum of 1 Final Four.

So using my biased criteria, the Friars easily show up in my Top Ten from 1958 thru 1977...
- 1 Final Four.
- 1 Elite-8.
- 1 Sweet-16.
- 7 NCAA's
- 2 NIT championships.
- 100 weeks ranked.
- ranked in parts of 13 different seasons, and Top 10 in 9 of those seasons.
- NCAA player of the year.
- NBA Rookie of the Year.
- several players drafted as Top 3 picks.
- one coach moving to the Lakers.
- another coach named as the US Olympic team's head coach

[EMT]

Blue bloods seem to mean programs that have been winning for a long time . . . and continue to win. How long is a long time? I guess that depends on how old you are.

Just to stoke the flames, here are my lists of the top ten teams from each generation - a generation being 20 years - beginning with the first national championship competition in the 1938 NIT. My emphasis is on national championships and Final Fours because that's what elite teams have to do to be considered elite.

1938-57

1. San Francisco
2. Kentucky
3. Oklahoma State
4. St John's
5. LIU
6. Kansas
7. Indiana
8. Holy Cross
9. LaSalle
10. Temple

1958-77

1. UCLA
2. Cincinnati
3. Ohio State
4. Kentucky
5. Marquette
6. North Carolina
7. Indiana
8. Cal-Berkeley
9. UTEP
10. Loyola-Chi

1978-97

1. Duke
2. North Carolina
3. Kentucky
4. Louisville
5. Indiana
6. Arkansas
7. Kansas
8. Georgetown
9. Michigan
10. UNLV

1998-17

1. UConn
2. Duke
3. North Carolina*
4. Kentucky*
5. Florida*
6. Michigan State
7. Kansas*
8. Louisville*
9. Syracuse
10. Villanova

* subject to change because team is still alive in this year's tournament

Only one school is on all 4 lists.

I like the approach however early on, the NIT was more prestigious of a tournament because of how limited it was to make the NCAAs.

[Bill Marsh]

I agree, EMT. I used NIT results in calculating the list, which is why schools like St John's, LIU, Holy Cross, and Temple rank as high as they do. In fact, I ranked San Francisco ahead of Kentucky spcifically because of its championship in the 1949 NIT, which included Kentucky in the field.

[Bill Marsh]

Hey Bill M,
I'm going to adjust criteria to allow Providence to appear in the grouping from 1958 to 1977... so that means i favor number of years ranked, number of weeks ranked, number of NCAA appearances, and several advancements in the NCAA's including a minimum of 1 Final Four.

So using my biased criteria, the Friars easily show up in my Top Ten from 1958 thru 1977...
- 1 Final Four.
- 1 Elite-8.
- 1 Sweet-16.
- 7 NCAA's
- 2 NIT championships.
- 100 weeks ranked.
- ranked in parts of 13 different seasons, and Top 10 in 9 of those seasons.
- NCAA player of the year.
- NBA Rookie of the Year.
- several players drafted as Top 3 picks.
- one coach moving to the Lakers.
- another coach named as the US Olympic team's head coach

I once used the same data to show that Providence was the top program in the East during roughly the same period. So I understand the approach and have no problem with it. It's another perspective. It takes too long for me to calculate all that data for so many teams. I was trying to show with my lists that the so-called blue bloods haven't been as successful as people think. Kansas and Indiana, for example, have big gaps. Schools like Duke and Louisville are more nouveau riche than they are old money.

It's frustrating to think how different the PC legacy would be if the 1966 Jimmie Walker Providence team had lived up to its #4 ranking in the tournament instead of getting blown out by St Joe's and if Marvin Barnes hadn't blown out his knee against Memphis State in the 1973 Final Four.

[ecasadoSBU]

What is the definition of a blue blood program? Whatever ESPN wants it to be. Just another way to segment college basketball teams into smaller, lucrative, marketable segments vaguely related to a long winning tradition. In many ways, just another label, like the Power-5

But a label... that if applied consistently in the long run can indeed separate that group from the rest... That's my fear. Those labels (power-5, blue-bloods) help these programs in the long run to recruit at a high level.

[MUBoxer]

A program that is a blue blood stands out in some category in my opinion. They may be one of the programs with the most Final Fours, or most championships, or most NCAA appearances.

This is why there's a lot of good programs and a tier that up there like UCONN Syracuse or Florida but still I wouldn't consider them blue bloods.

[Dave]

Historic Blue Bloods:
Kentucky, UCLA, North Carolina, Kansas, Indiana

Modern Blue Bloods: the above plus add...
Duke, UConn, Ville, Nova

Honorable Mention:
Michigan State, Florida

[Dave]

[Jet915]

My guess would be 3 national titles, 30+ NCAA tournament appearances....