(3) Wednesday BE Games - 01/25/2017 - SJU@PC, CU@GU, BU@SHU

[Hall2012]

I didn't mean any disrespect. There just really wasn't a time that I thought that wasn't a win. I figured that was just everyone's feeling. Just one of those yeoman's games where you get a few possession lead and just hold it all game

Up until those back to back 3s, I felt like it was gonna be a win for SHU. I felt like they were playing better down the stretch and at several points were just 1 big stop away from taking control. They just never got that big stop. Every time they had momentum and hit a big basket, whether it was to take the lead, tie the game, or pull within 1, Butler answered with a quick 3 to kill momentum.

[Bill Marsh]

Creighton suddenly seems like a very winnable game - especially at home.

1 of 2 things will happen. Either Creighton will get things straightened out without Watson and it will still be an extremely difficult game, or they'll keep struggling and it will be a winnable game but not one that's going to move the needle on their tourney hopes.

Even if they get things straightened out, I can't imagine that they're going to be as good as they were with Watson. In a game played on The Hall's court, It figured to be a close game before the injury with Creighton probably a 3 point favorite. Without Watson, Seton Hall goes into that game the favorite with the only question being by how many?

[Hall2012]

Even if they get things straightened out, I can't imagine that they're going to be as good as they were with Watson. In a game played on The Hall's court, It figured to be a close game before the injury with Creighton probably a 3 point favorite. Without Watson, Seton Hall goes into that game the favorite with the only question being by how many?

It's obviously more winnable without Watson than with, but if the Hall doesn't beat a "top 4" team prior to that game, I can't see them being the favorite unless the Jays continue to struggle like they did tonight. Of course Watson played the first game, but the Pirates weren't particularly competitive in Omaha.

[NJRedman]

Guys, at the midway point St. John's sits alone in 6th place. The skys the limit!

[Bill Marsh]

Even if they get things straightened out, I can't imagine that they're going to be as good as they were with Watson. In a game played on The Hall's court, It figured to be a close game before the injury with Creighton probably a 3 point favorite. Without Watson, Seton Hall goes into that game the favorite with the only question being by how many?

It's obviously more winnable without Watson than with, but if the Hall doesn't beat a "top 4" team prior to that game

South Carolina already gives your guys a win over a ranked team. And it really isn't a "top 4" anymore. It's a "top 2". Villanova and Butler have begun to separate themselves from the rest of the pack.

I can't see them being the favorite unless the Jays continue to struggle like they did tonight.

And like they did against Marquette. This is no longer a team just having a bad night.

Of course Watson played the first game, but the Pirates weren't particularly competitive in Omaha.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

Come on, this isn't just losing any player. We're talking about the national assists leader. When you lose that guy, the coach doesn't just look down the bench, wave in the next sub, and expect the same results. That's a different team you played back then.

[REDMEN1415]

Guys, at the midway point St. John's sits alone in 6th place. The skys the limit!

TEAM CONF OVERALL
Villanova 7-2 19-2
Butler 7-2 18-3
Creighton 5-3 18-3
Marquette 5-3 14-6
Xavier 4-3 14-5
St John's 4-5 10-12

Quite an achievement mid way through B.E. play

[SJHooper]

SJ is getting more respectable at 4-5, I know you will all roll your eyes when you read this, but it's true...we have played mostly bottom level teams in the first half of conference play. Half of our wins were against DePaul and to be honest PC just isn't very good this year without Dunn or Bentil. This isn't to say the Butler win didn't count, of course it did...but we need to show we can win here and there against the upper echelon teams as well. Very happy over the win, but if we can steal one against Xavier, Marquette, Creighton, Nova, it will mean a lot more. So glad to see Marquette playing well by the way. Fans must be refreshed.

My main concern is still defense...we allowed PC to shoot 70% FG late in the game. That is not just bad that has to be close to some records. 70% FT shooting is decent. But to do that in FG%? That means no defense is being played and it just really shows how dire our need is for real big men down low. I can't even count how many easy dunks and layups we allow...maybe 30 a game? Teams barely have to work to get a high percentage shot on us. That being said, winning on the road in this conference is very tough so credit the team for being ready to punch back.

I still don't get why Darien Williams isn't playing much more...he actually has offensive moves inside and hits a decent amount. I also don't get why Freudenberg gets any minutes in a close game. He looks completely lost and I'm really souring on foreign players...clearly we aren't Gonzaga in that area developing euro talent. The game just looks way too fast for him. At one point you could see he was about to let a shot off, but the PC defender closed in on him so fast he didn't expect it and then passed the ball since he didn't have enough space. Seems like he needs a while to get a shot off so he should focus on his inside game more.

[Hall2012]

Even if they get things straightened out, I can't imagine that they're going to be as good as they were with Watson. In a game played on The Hall's court, It figured to be a close game before the injury with Creighton probably a 3 point favorite. Without Watson, Seton Hall goes into that game the favorite with the only question being by how many?

It's obviously more winnable without Watson than with, but if the Hall doesn't beat a "top 4" team prior to that game

South Carolina already gives your guys a win over a ranked team. And it really isn't a "top 4" anymore. It's a "top 2". Villanova and Butler have begun to separate themselves from the rest of the pack.

I can't see them being the favorite unless the Jays continue to struggle like they did tonight.

And like they did against Marquette. This is no longer a team just having a bad night.

Of course Watson played the first game, but the Pirates weren't particularly competitive in Omaha.

"Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"

Come on, this isn't just losing any player. We're talking about the national assists leader. When you lose that guy, the coach doesn't just look down the bench, wave in the next sub, and expect the same results. That's a different team you played back then.

1. The South Carolina win comes with the major asterisk of the Gamecocks not having Sindarius Thornwell. At best, a win over Creighton would come with that same asterisk. Seton Hall's best legitimate rpi win is over Marquette, who not even a week ago was their worst rpi loss.

2. I agree, and that's not a good thing for Creighton or anyone else in the league.

3. Obviously it hasn't happened overnight and you couldn't expect it to, but I'd like to think the Jays have enough pieces that they can get back to winning without Watson. They won't be a top-10 team anymore, but possibly top 25 - though they'll almost certainly fall out of the polls on Monday.

[billyjack]

Lovett and Ponds hit some really tough shots repeatedly over the last 10 minutes... a ton of contested fall-away jumpshots, twisting drives to the hoop, both types of 3 point plays. Holy cow, it was crazy. Ellison and Ahmed too.

From hazy memory, with like 12 to play, the Friars were up 63-61. We must have taken 2 or 3 point leads from that point til we had an 85-83 lead (once it was a 5 point PC lead I think). Every time we scored, SJU would immediately score on the other end, almost unstoppable.

SJU has noticeably improved over the last 2 months. Their defense still tends to reach-in too much unnecessarily and can get lazy (Ahmed's 5th foul was really undisciplined), but their bigs are pretty active.

An entertaining game, but with an annoying ending for us PC fans.

[Bill Marsh]

Here's what St John's did well:

1. They forced tempo, getting Providence to play the game in the 80's when they wanted to play it in the 60's.

2. They did it by forcing turnovers right from the opening minutes. Providence averages only 12 TOs but committed 19. Cartwright, an excellent PG who averages only 2.8 TOs, faced constant pressure from the 2 quick SJU guards, resulting in 6 Cartwright TOs. Ponds and LoVett combined for 5 steals.

3. By turning the game into a track meet, St John's created numerous easy layup opportunities. Providence also got some easy layups, but in the end it was advantage: St John's.

4. St John's was relentless on the boards - especially Ellison who had 4 offensive rebounds by himself. As a team, St John's was +5 on the offensive boards. Combined with their advantage in turnovers, that netted them 11 extra FG opportunities.

5. Obviously St John's shot ridiculously well - 52% overall and 47% from 3. But it was the extra possessions which maximized the benefit of their hot shooting.

6. LoVett's 3 at the half was insane. That might have been a game changer right there