JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Mr. Roboto » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:21 am

Toronto Rapture wrote:


Its also been discussed on many shows today as well, including PTI. Also discussion of declining attendance at Georgetown games.


JTIII has had some success, so I would be patient and see what happens next year. He finally has a good PG, imo the lack of a good pg has really hurt the last couple of years. His recruiting is still sold. I guess the Porter team wasn't too long ago. My take is Georgetown was a blue blood in the 80's and early 90's, just like Marquette was in the 70's. I don't know if they can get back there but I see a top 15 - 25 program annually as realistic. I would only move on if you had a top guy in the bag. Perhaps after next year Shaka Smart may want to relocate if things don't get going at UT. I think JTIII can get back on track, but you need to have a home run hire if you move on IMO. I would see what happens next year. Who are the names being rumored?
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Red Rooster » Thu Mar 02, 2017 4:08 pm

SJHooper wrote:
Red Rooster wrote:
SJHooper wrote:I was hopeful that SJ beating G'Town was the final nail in the coffin for JTIII but it appears there's a good chance it wasn't. I will never understand why bad coaches are kept for so long with poor results.


The same way I'll never understand why you care so much about what another program does with their coach.

I know I've said this before but the days of me seeing G'Town come into MSG and instilling some fear as a SJ fan are long gone...and that's a problem.


If not the Hoyas, then it'll be someone else who'll instill fear into you.

G'Town should have been the clear #2 after Nova every year ranked in the top 15 consistently, maybe even beating out Nova for the Big East championship every so often.


Why should they be the "clear #2" after Villanova? There is nowhere that's written. Why can't St. John's be the clear #2? Butler? Xavier? Or, any other team in the conference besides Georgetown? Maybe, there should be a clear #1 other than Villanova? Besides, each season can entail different entities, and each team can move up, down, or status quo, per varied reasons.

The only thing I'll say is they've "clearly" underachieve the past two seasons. Clear enough? :mrgreen:



I'm a huge SJ fan first and foremost, but if you don't think the success or lack of success of G'Town is directly tied to our perception as a conference, you are mistaken. Prior to the realignment, Georgetown was a monster...they were always in the top 25 and they always performed at a high level. They may not have had much tournament success but they were definitely a blue blood brand. They were every bit as good as Villanova in the old Big East, at times better. Then realignment happened, Villanova became the big monster, Georgetown fell off a cliff, Marquette got punched in the gut (though they appear to be waking up thankfully), PC began competing, etc. We can't just keep riding Villanova's coattails if we want real respect as a conference. Eventually, they are going to have a down year and you have to wonder if anyone else can step up to that level. So that's my point...we need alternatives to Villanova. Why don't I say SJ should be the clear #2? Because we haven't won a tourney game in 16 years and the last time we won a BET was what, 17 years ago? We are a rebuilding program, not a plug and play program like Georgetown was supposed to be. They were already primed and ready with a steady head coach and tons of talent with recent success.

I saw someone said PTI discussed G'Town and JT3 last night. I watched it and Tony Kornheiser said "they lost to DePaul and St. John's...these are ghost programs they are losing to". I thought that was BS that he mentioned us and DePaul in the same breath. Even in a rebuilding year we are almost .500 in the Big East...DePaul is in its own world. He must not watch much college hoops.


That's your opinion and a spiel conveyed by several that the success or lack of from Georgetown is directly tied to our perception as a conference. What happens if some other program takes their place and do what the Hoyas are "supposed" to be doing? The only reason several people believe such because they're a longtime (actually, one of the original teams of the conference) Big East team. If another team or two take off, then all will be well. I get it! They're a flagship program for the conference, but as long as another program or others take flight, then it won't matter. NC State was once on the Tar Heels level and better than Duke. But, guess what? It hasn't been that way for decades, and the ACC went on about their business.

You wasn't even born the last time Georgetown was a "true" monster on the national level. Yes, they've had some solid teams during JT3's tenure, but I never considered them to be a "beast" of sorts. Just a good program that had gotten their act together after the latter years of "Pops" Thompson and Craig Esherick. IMO, they never reached the level under JT3 where his dad had the program throughout the 80's and the very, early 90's.

Who said anything about riding Villanova's coattail? Prior to last season, Villanova wasn't exactly holding their own when it came to March. Although, they wasn't a part of the conference, but Butler has been to consecutive Final Four's this decade. They seem to be playing rather well of late, as well. Will their recent good play transpire during March Madness? Time will tell.

Creighton and Xavier have lost extremely, key players in Mo Watson and Ed Sumner, respectively. Xavier also lost Trevon Blueitt for a couple games, and I'm still not sure he's not hobbled. Those two teams seasons haven't been the same since losing their point guards. Personally, I thought both teams had an excellent opportunity to reach the second weekend of the tournament, but not so much anymore due to those particular injuries. So, those are your alternatives to Villanova.

I was actually being facetious when I stated, why didn't you mention St. John's being #2. Besides, not having won a tournament game in 17 years doesn't have any relevance on them being #2, if they deserved to be in that position. Similarly, to Georgetown doesn't deserve to be a "clear" #2, as you stated earlier. Your past doesn't always determine your future. They haven't done anything to be a "clear" #2, so why anoint them? They're not entitled to that position, similarly to Villanova isn't entitled to the #1 position. They're there because they've earned it, but more importantly, earned it because they've done what they're supposed to do to be there.

It's also funny how you cherry-picked certain teams (ie, Providence and Marquette), but clearly left out the programs I mentioned above. Regardless, those are your alternatives, as I listed. Get out your box!

Finally, I don't care two craps what those clowns had to say on PTI. IMO, ESPN's programming outside of sporting events, 30 for 30, and "Recruiting Nation" are typically garbage.
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Bill Marsh » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:11 pm

billyjack wrote:I'm still hoping JT3 stays on with the Hoyas, though I realize that's not the most popular opinion.

Looked at some numbers...

In games decided by 6 points or less (2 possession games) over the last 4 years:

2017 - Georgetown is 5-9 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 3-10 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 11-6 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 4-4 (including 1-1 in OT).

In games decided by 2 points or less over the last 4 years:

2017 - Georgetown is 0-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 1-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 4-2 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 1-2 (including 1-1 in OT).

Also, in games decided by 7 or more points:
2017 - Georgetown is 9-7.
2016 - Georgetown is 12-8.
2015 - Georgetown is 11-5.
2014 - Georgetown is 14-11.

In 2015, the Hoyas were 4 minutes away from a Sweet-16.

So looking at the last two years...
Games decided by 6 or less, Georgetown is 8-19.
Games decided by 2 or less, Georgetown is 1-8.

It's not like they're not competitive. This isn't Keno Davis or something losing by 35 every game. Why are they losing close games so much? Coaching? Luck? In 2015 they were 11-6 in close games... did the Hoyas' roster have more seniors? Just thought I'd toss this out there and see what people think. The concerning thing to me is how attendance has fallen so much.


Billy Jack, I agree with you. All of the criticisms of JT III ignore his years of regular season success and focus almost entirely on a string of postseason failures. The result of a single game each year is simply not the measure of how well a coach has done his job that year. He's taken his team to the tournament 8 times. That's a good record.

While not really comparable, I am reminded of the criticism that Jay Wright received when he went 6 years without getting past the first weekend. He missed the tournament entirely one year with a losing record. When things hit their low point with that 13-19 season, 13th in the OBE, their were murmurs that the game had passed him by, that maybe it was time for Villanova to think about making a change. Thank God they didn't. Things never got as bad as they have at Georgetown, but the dynamic and the lack of patience by fans was similar.

I think that coaches should be evaluated based on how well they contribute to the overall development of their players. These are educational institutions after all. The record and the performance of their teams is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing. Jim Calhoun should have retired long before he did. By the end of his career, he was an embarrassment, an old, cranky curmudgeon who publicly humiliated players and was holding onto his job based on past results, not current performance. It was a shame. I know nothing about JT III aside from what I see on TV. But if he's a positive influence on young men, then he should remain even if he's not consistently successful - unless he becomes consistently unsuccessful.
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Red Rooster » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:19 pm

Bill Marsh wrote:
billyjack wrote:I'm still hoping JT3 stays on with the Hoyas, though I realize that's not the most popular opinion.

Looked at some numbers...

In games decided by 6 points or less (2 possession games) over the last 4 years:

2017 - Georgetown is 5-9 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 3-10 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 11-6 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 4-4 (including 1-1 in OT).

In games decided by 2 points or less over the last 4 years:

2017 - Georgetown is 0-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 1-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 4-2 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 1-2 (including 1-1 in OT).

Also, in games decided by 7 or more points:
2017 - Georgetown is 9-7.
2016 - Georgetown is 12-8.
2015 - Georgetown is 11-5.
2014 - Georgetown is 14-11.

In 2015, the Hoyas were 4 minutes away from a Sweet-16.

So looking at the last two years...
Games decided by 6 or less, Georgetown is 8-19.
Games decided by 2 or less, Georgetown is 1-8.

It's not like they're not competitive. This isn't Keno Davis or something losing by 35 every game. Why are they losing close games so much? Coaching? Luck? In 2015 they were 11-6 in close games... did the Hoyas' roster have more seniors? Just thought I'd toss this out there and see what people think. The concerning thing to me is how attendance has fallen so much.


Billy Jack, I agree with you. All of the criticisms of JT III ignore his years of regular season success and focus almost entirely on a string of postseason failures. The result of a single game each year is simply not the measure of how well a coach has done his job that year. He's taken his team to the tournament 8 times. That's a good record.

While not really comparable, I am reminded of the criticism that Jay Wright received when he went 6 years without getting past the first weekend. He missed the tournament entirely one year with a losing record. When things hit their low point with that 13-19 season, 13th in the OBE, their were murmurs that the game had passed him by, that maybe it was time for Villanova to think about making a change. Thank God they didn't. Things never got as bad as they have at Georgetown, but the dynamic and the lack of patience by fans was similar.

I think that coaches should be evaluated based on how well they contribute to the overall development of their players. These are educational institutions after all. The record and the performance of their teams is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing. Jim Calhoun should have retired long before he did. By the end of his career, he was an embarrassment, an old, cranky curmudgeon who publicly humiliated players and was holding onto his job based on past results, not current performance. It was a shame. I know nothing about JT III aside from what I see on TV. But if he's a positive influence on young men, then he should remain even if he's not consistently successful - unless he becomes consistently unsuccessful.


Whether Georgetown retain or fire JT3 is fine with me, as I don't care what another program does with a respective coach. But, I can certainly see why most of their fans would rather part with him versus retaining him.

He started out red hot like a bullet out of a pistol. That's including his first season, when he had a team that was predicted to finish at the bottom of the conference, only to have them on the NCAA bubble (due to a late season collapse) and play well in the NIT (they were a game away from going to NYC). The following season, he slightly improved, per the regular season record, but you could clearly see the program was ascending. They advanced to the conference semifinals game, and was leading throughout until Syracuse rallied late and hit the game-winner in the closing seconds.

They ended up in Ohio (Dayton) in the NCAA's and faced a highly-ranked, Ohio State team, in the 2nd round, with a large, Buckeye contingent in attendance. I remember watching that particular game with a couple of friends who are Hoya fans. I just knew they was going to lose. The Hoyas ended up spanking Ohio State, and played eventual champion, Florida (in the Sweet 16), in a close game and had a chance to win it late before a missed three-pointer helped the Gators secure the win.

The following season (2006-2007) is when they started to look like they could be on to something. 30-7 overall and 13-3 in the conference. Of course, their Final Four season. Although, they made the Final Four, I do recall Jeff Green traveling prior to his game winning shot against Vandy in the Sweet 16. Maybe, if the refs didn't swallow their whistles, then it may seem easier for some others to dismiss JT3 of his duties.

The 2007-2008 season was also a fantastic season for JT3 and the Hoyas (28-6 overall and 15-3 in conference play). They once again played in the conference finals, only to get handled by Pitt (whom they beat a season earlier in the conference finals). This is the NCAA's when Stephen Curry became a household name. It began with Gonzaga in the first round, but it was his display against Georgetown in the 2nd round, and down 17 points. Davidson rallied and sent Georgetown packing. Frankly, that was somewhat the beginning of the end for JT3.

JT3 has been to five NCAA tournaments since that particular game against Davidson, but only two wins. Those wins are against Belmont and Eastern Washington. They've been blown out in the 1st round to the likes of Ohio, VCU, and Florida Gulf Coast. I mean literally ran off the floor, as if they didn't belong on the court with those teams. Their other loss where they were favored was to 11th seeded NC State in the 2nd round. The only loss I'd concede was their NCAA tournament loss to Utah two seasons ago.

There has been a slight descension with his teams in the past few seasons, although he did finish in 1st place in the Big East in 2012-2013. Otto Porter carried that group, and they did play good defense for the most part. Outside of that particular season, you can see the program slightly tailing off. These past two seasons has been in play for a few seasons, IMO.

Since, starting off 4-1 in the conference last season, JT3 is 8-22. That's more than likely to be 8-23 after Saturday's game against Villanova. He's went from having solid (or better) regular seasons and tournament success to solid (or better) regular seasons to poor tournament results to poor regular season play and no tournament results. There's a pattern that probably shouldn't be ignored.

Don't forget they lost to Radford, UNC-Asheville, and Monmouth (in a rout) last season. They was also on the ropes against UNC-Wilmington and Charlotte a season ago. They also was getting waxed by Arkansas State, earlier this season, before making a run and losing by six. A pattern.

Although, I don't care one way or the other, but I think he'll be back for another season. I'm sure that probably won't sit well with many, Georgetown fans.
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby billyjack » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:44 pm

Bill Marsh wrote:
billyjack wrote:I'm still hoping JT3 stays on with the Hoyas, though I realize that's not the most popular opinion.

Looked at some numbers...

In games decided by 6 points or less (2 possession games) over the last 4 years:

2017 - Georgetown is 5-9 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 3-10 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 11-6 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 4-4 (including 1-1 in OT).

In games decided by 2 points or less over the last 4 years:

2017 - Georgetown is 0-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 1-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 4-2 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 1-2 (including 1-1 in OT).

Also, in games decided by 7 or more points:
2017 - Georgetown is 9-7.
2016 - Georgetown is 12-8.
2015 - Georgetown is 11-5.
2014 - Georgetown is 14-11.

In 2015, the Hoyas were 4 minutes away from a Sweet-16.

So looking at the last two years...
Games decided by 6 or less, Georgetown is 8-19.
Games decided by 2 or less, Georgetown is 1-8.

It's not like they're not competitive. This isn't Keno Davis or something losing by 35 every game. Why are they losing close games so much? Coaching? Luck? In 2015 they were 11-6 in close games... did the Hoyas' roster have more seniors? Just thought I'd toss this out there and see what people think. The concerning thing to me is how attendance has fallen so much.


Billy Jack, I agree with you. All of the criticisms of JT III ignore his years of regular season success and focus almost entirely on a string of postseason failures. The result of a single game each year is simply not the measure of how well a coach has done his job that year. He's taken his team to the tournament 8 times. That's a good record.

While not really comparable, I am reminded of the criticism that Jay Wright received when he went 6 years without getting past the first weekend. He missed the tournament entirely one year with a losing record. When things hit their low point with that 13-19 season, 13th in the OBE, their were murmurs that the game had passed him by, that maybe it was time for Villanova to think about making a change. Thank God they didn't. Things never got as bad as they have at Georgetown, but the dynamic and the lack of patience by fans was similar.

I think that coaches should be evaluated based on how well they contribute to the overall development of their players. These are educational institutions after all. The record and the performance of their teams is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing. Jim Calhoun should have retired long before he did. By the end of his career, he was an embarrassment, an old, cranky curmudgeon who publicly humiliated players and was holding onto his job based on past results, not current performance. It was a shame. I know nothing about JT III aside from what I see on TV. But if he's a positive influence on young men, then he should remain even if he's not consistently successful - unless he becomes consistently unsuccessful.


Good points and breakdown Red Rooster. The Utah loss 2 years ago was tough. Should've been in the Sweet 16. Game was tied with 4 minutes left when a Ute literally jumped on Smith-Rivera's back on an offensive rebound under the basket, and ball was given to Utah. Changed the momentum. I like to hope that the JT3 downturn you're accurately describing is as like Bill said, a hiccup towards Jay Wright type success.

And good points Bill. JT3 runs a great program. No scandals or controversy, players' academics are fine as far as I've heard, and his players are respectful (kids like Josh Smith that had reputations for being difficult, had no problems under JT3). They're allowed or encouraged to be socially conscious. Great representatives of Georgetown and the Big East. JT3 isn't the most outgoing, but he's respected throughout the sport and is one of the faces of the conference.

Georgetown holds a significant place in American sports and social culture. To let go of JT3 would be a major move and shouldn't be done lightly. And his replacement couldn't be just some run-if-the-mill guy, like Mick Cronin, which would be ridiculous might as well hire Rip Taylor.
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Bill Marsh » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:09 pm

GoldenWarrior11 wrote:Imagine if they dismissed JT3 at the end of the season and hired Patrick Ewing. Those St. Johns/Georgetown matchups would be ELECTRIC!


If they keep JT3, it might be a good idea to bring Patrick back as an assistant.
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby novahoops11 » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:21 pm

Verizon crowd on TV sounded dead as a doornail. Hoyas showed some life in the 2nd half but you wouldn't have known it from the fans.
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Toronto Rapture » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:39 pm

novahoops11 wrote:Verizon crowd on TV sounded dead as a doornail. Hoyas showed some life in the 2nd half but you wouldn't have known it from the fans.


Not sure if it sounded like this to anyone else, but there was some weird echoing/distortion during portions of the broadcast of that game. As you said, the audience itself sounded pretty flat...
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Red Rooster » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:11 pm

Bill Marsh wrote:
GoldenWarrior11 wrote:Imagine if they dismissed JT3 at the end of the season and hired Patrick Ewing. Those St. Johns/Georgetown matchups would be ELECTRIC!


If they keep JT3, it might be a good idea to bring Patrick back as an assistant.


Are you referring to Ewing's son or Patrick Ewing, Sr.? I doubt the elder Ewing would come to be an assistant. Frankly, if I was a Georgetown fan, I would like to removed from any, Thompson-related personnel when and if JT3 is fired. That means they'll keep JT, Jr. overseeing the program.

Say, for instance, Ewing doesn't work out. Then, you'll have another awkward situation on your hands, as they're currently incurring. I would go in a totally different direction, altogether. No Thompson legacy personnel, period.
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Re: JTIII is the worst coach in the NCAA

Postby Jet915 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:58 pm

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