Toronto Rapture wrote:Burrito wrote:The heat on JT3 has definitely been picking up recently. Hopefully the GU president gets the message.
http://www.fanragsports.com/cbb/zagoria ... rustrated/
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... pson-looms
http://deadspin.com/georgetown-should-f ... 1792838026
http://www.casualhoya.com/2017/2/27/147 ... ompson-iii
Its also been discussed on many shows today as well, including PTI. Also discussion of declining attendance at Georgetown games.
SJHooper wrote:Red Rooster wrote:SJHooper wrote:I was hopeful that SJ beating G'Town was the final nail in the coffin for JTIII but it appears there's a good chance it wasn't. I will never understand why bad coaches are kept for so long with poor results.
The same way I'll never understand why you care so much about what another program does with their coach.I know I've said this before but the days of me seeing G'Town come into MSG and instilling some fear as a SJ fan are long gone...and that's a problem.
If not the Hoyas, then it'll be someone else who'll instill fear into you.G'Town should have been the clear #2 after Nova every year ranked in the top 15 consistently, maybe even beating out Nova for the Big East championship every so often.
Why should they be the "clear #2" after Villanova? There is nowhere that's written. Why can't St. John's be the clear #2? Butler? Xavier? Or, any other team in the conference besides Georgetown? Maybe, there should be a clear #1 other than Villanova? Besides, each season can entail different entities, and each team can move up, down, or status quo, per varied reasons.
The only thing I'll say is they've "clearly" underachieve the past two seasons. Clear enough?
I'm a huge SJ fan first and foremost, but if you don't think the success or lack of success of G'Town is directly tied to our perception as a conference, you are mistaken. Prior to the realignment, Georgetown was a monster...they were always in the top 25 and they always performed at a high level. They may not have had much tournament success but they were definitely a blue blood brand. They were every bit as good as Villanova in the old Big East, at times better. Then realignment happened, Villanova became the big monster, Georgetown fell off a cliff, Marquette got punched in the gut (though they appear to be waking up thankfully), PC began competing, etc. We can't just keep riding Villanova's coattails if we want real respect as a conference. Eventually, they are going to have a down year and you have to wonder if anyone else can step up to that level. So that's my point...we need alternatives to Villanova. Why don't I say SJ should be the clear #2? Because we haven't won a tourney game in 16 years and the last time we won a BET was what, 17 years ago? We are a rebuilding program, not a plug and play program like Georgetown was supposed to be. They were already primed and ready with a steady head coach and tons of talent with recent success.
I saw someone said PTI discussed G'Town and JT3 last night. I watched it and Tony Kornheiser said "they lost to DePaul and St. John's...these are ghost programs they are losing to". I thought that was BS that he mentioned us and DePaul in the same breath. Even in a rebuilding year we are almost .500 in the Big East...DePaul is in its own world. He must not watch much college hoops.
billyjack wrote:I'm still hoping JT3 stays on with the Hoyas, though I realize that's not the most popular opinion.
Looked at some numbers...
In games decided by 6 points or less (2 possession games) over the last 4 years:
2017 - Georgetown is 5-9 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 3-10 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 11-6 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 4-4 (including 1-1 in OT).
In games decided by 2 points or less over the last 4 years:
2017 - Georgetown is 0-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 1-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 4-2 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 1-2 (including 1-1 in OT).
Also, in games decided by 7 or more points:
2017 - Georgetown is 9-7.
2016 - Georgetown is 12-8.
2015 - Georgetown is 11-5.
2014 - Georgetown is 14-11.
In 2015, the Hoyas were 4 minutes away from a Sweet-16.
So looking at the last two years...
Games decided by 6 or less, Georgetown is 8-19.
Games decided by 2 or less, Georgetown is 1-8.
It's not like they're not competitive. This isn't Keno Davis or something losing by 35 every game. Why are they losing close games so much? Coaching? Luck? In 2015 they were 11-6 in close games... did the Hoyas' roster have more seniors? Just thought I'd toss this out there and see what people think. The concerning thing to me is how attendance has fallen so much.
Bill Marsh wrote:billyjack wrote:I'm still hoping JT3 stays on with the Hoyas, though I realize that's not the most popular opinion.
Looked at some numbers...
In games decided by 6 points or less (2 possession games) over the last 4 years:
2017 - Georgetown is 5-9 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 3-10 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 11-6 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 4-4 (including 1-1 in OT).
In games decided by 2 points or less over the last 4 years:
2017 - Georgetown is 0-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 1-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 4-2 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 1-2 (including 1-1 in OT).
Also, in games decided by 7 or more points:
2017 - Georgetown is 9-7.
2016 - Georgetown is 12-8.
2015 - Georgetown is 11-5.
2014 - Georgetown is 14-11.
In 2015, the Hoyas were 4 minutes away from a Sweet-16.
So looking at the last two years...
Games decided by 6 or less, Georgetown is 8-19.
Games decided by 2 or less, Georgetown is 1-8.
It's not like they're not competitive. This isn't Keno Davis or something losing by 35 every game. Why are they losing close games so much? Coaching? Luck? In 2015 they were 11-6 in close games... did the Hoyas' roster have more seniors? Just thought I'd toss this out there and see what people think. The concerning thing to me is how attendance has fallen so much.
Billy Jack, I agree with you. All of the criticisms of JT III ignore his years of regular season success and focus almost entirely on a string of postseason failures. The result of a single game each year is simply not the measure of how well a coach has done his job that year. He's taken his team to the tournament 8 times. That's a good record.
While not really comparable, I am reminded of the criticism that Jay Wright received when he went 6 years without getting past the first weekend. He missed the tournament entirely one year with a losing record. When things hit their low point with that 13-19 season, 13th in the OBE, their were murmurs that the game had passed him by, that maybe it was time for Villanova to think about making a change. Thank God they didn't. Things never got as bad as they have at Georgetown, but the dynamic and the lack of patience by fans was similar.
I think that coaches should be evaluated based on how well they contribute to the overall development of their players. These are educational institutions after all. The record and the performance of their teams is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing. Jim Calhoun should have retired long before he did. By the end of his career, he was an embarrassment, an old, cranky curmudgeon who publicly humiliated players and was holding onto his job based on past results, not current performance. It was a shame. I know nothing about JT III aside from what I see on TV. But if he's a positive influence on young men, then he should remain even if he's not consistently successful - unless he becomes consistently unsuccessful.
Bill Marsh wrote:billyjack wrote:I'm still hoping JT3 stays on with the Hoyas, though I realize that's not the most popular opinion.
Looked at some numbers...
In games decided by 6 points or less (2 possession games) over the last 4 years:
2017 - Georgetown is 5-9 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 3-10 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 11-6 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 4-4 (including 1-1 in OT).
In games decided by 2 points or less over the last 4 years:
2017 - Georgetown is 0-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2016 - Georgetown is 1-4 (including 0-2 in OT).
2015 - Georgetown is 4-2 (including 3-1 in OT).
2014 - Georgetown is 1-2 (including 1-1 in OT).
Also, in games decided by 7 or more points:
2017 - Georgetown is 9-7.
2016 - Georgetown is 12-8.
2015 - Georgetown is 11-5.
2014 - Georgetown is 14-11.
In 2015, the Hoyas were 4 minutes away from a Sweet-16.
So looking at the last two years...
Games decided by 6 or less, Georgetown is 8-19.
Games decided by 2 or less, Georgetown is 1-8.
It's not like they're not competitive. This isn't Keno Davis or something losing by 35 every game. Why are they losing close games so much? Coaching? Luck? In 2015 they were 11-6 in close games... did the Hoyas' roster have more seniors? Just thought I'd toss this out there and see what people think. The concerning thing to me is how attendance has fallen so much.
Billy Jack, I agree with you. All of the criticisms of JT III ignore his years of regular season success and focus almost entirely on a string of postseason failures. The result of a single game each year is simply not the measure of how well a coach has done his job that year. He's taken his team to the tournament 8 times. That's a good record.
While not really comparable, I am reminded of the criticism that Jay Wright received when he went 6 years without getting past the first weekend. He missed the tournament entirely one year with a losing record. When things hit their low point with that 13-19 season, 13th in the OBE, their were murmurs that the game had passed him by, that maybe it was time for Villanova to think about making a change. Thank God they didn't. Things never got as bad as they have at Georgetown, but the dynamic and the lack of patience by fans was similar.
I think that coaches should be evaluated based on how well they contribute to the overall development of their players. These are educational institutions after all. The record and the performance of their teams is important, but it shouldn't be the only thing. Jim Calhoun should have retired long before he did. By the end of his career, he was an embarrassment, an old, cranky curmudgeon who publicly humiliated players and was holding onto his job based on past results, not current performance. It was a shame. I know nothing about JT III aside from what I see on TV. But if he's a positive influence on young men, then he should remain even if he's not consistently successful - unless he becomes consistently unsuccessful.
GoldenWarrior11 wrote:Imagine if they dismissed JT3 at the end of the season and hired Patrick Ewing. Those St. Johns/Georgetown matchups would be ELECTRIC!
novahoops11 wrote:Verizon crowd on TV sounded dead as a doornail. Hoyas showed some life in the 2nd half but you wouldn't have known it from the fans.
Bill Marsh wrote:GoldenWarrior11 wrote:Imagine if they dismissed JT3 at the end of the season and hired Patrick Ewing. Those St. Johns/Georgetown matchups would be ELECTRIC!
If they keep JT3, it might be a good idea to bring Patrick back as an assistant.
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