The Holy Land of Hoops

AS the Big East is looking to establish itself as a consistent, national, power basketball conference, I think most can agree that a substantial piece of attaining and maintaining that goal is tournament success. Whether you agree or disagree with a few weeks in March being the proverbial measuring stick of the success of a three and half-month season is inconsequential. The press, recruits, players, and pretty much everyone else who is in any way, shape, or form vested in college basketball, it is the barometer, the ending criterion. I realize it’s all somewhat relative as our teams are in different stages every year, whether it be rebuilding, injury plagued, young, veteran laden, etc., but just looking for a generalized, median view.

To that end, I ask my fellow conference mates the following

1) What do you see as a disappointing/“normal”/and a best-case scenario year, NCAA tournament wise, in regards to bids/how often/ to results for your TEAM of interest?

2) From a CONFERENCE perspective, what do you see as disappointing/ “normal” or routine number of bids per year/a great year? How far and how many teams advancing to what round(s) in the Tournament would be considered disappointing, normal, and exceptional.

For my beloved Musketeers:

As a TEAM: Expect a bid 9 out of 10 years.

-DISAPOINTING: No invite. May lead to clinical depression with spontaneous and public outbursts of sobbing followed by screams of “Why, why hath though done this to me!”

-NORMAL: Tourney invite and round of 32. NORMAL PLUS: if we are considered a pre-season top 25 type squad and reach the Sweet 16. Sprinkling in an Elite 8 every 4-6 years.

EXCEPTIONAL: Elite 8. We could go 0-20, win the conference tourney and the auto bid, advance to the Elite 8, and I would deem the season exceptional. Granted, I may develop a serious case of Bi Polar syndrome, but so worth it. For Xavier fans though, the FINAL FOUR is the next benchmark success in the progression of the program. We’ve been close in the last ten plus years but have yet to successfully negotiate that final hurdle. We get to the final weekend and I may even be somewhat amicable to a red sweater vest wearing Dayton fan. Maybe not. I can only imagine what a ride it must have been for Butler fans going to back to back National Championship games. I'd probably still be three sheets to the wind celebrating that feat.

As a CONFERENCE:

DISAPOINTING: 2-3 teams. Adding insult to injury would be having to read the drivel geared toward “is the Big East a major conference” or the many other reincarnations that would mirror that headline. Trolls from A-10 and Mountain West over running this board, cats and dogs living together, complete anarchy. Results would be no teams reaching the second week.

NORMAL: 4-5 bids. My satisfaction can vary depending on the type of seeding we draw. If we earn 4 bids but three of those bids are top 4 seeds, that’s pretty solid. Results: 3-4 teams to round of 32, 2-3 to Sweet 16, 1-2 to Elite 8, 1 to Final Four.

EXCEPTIONAL: 6 plus bids. Majority with top 5 seeds. 3-4 teams to Sweet 16, 2-3 Elite 8, 1-2 Final Four, 1 National Champion.

Very interested to hear everyone else’s’ opinion.

Simply put: I think the Big East should aspire to send 1 team to the Final Four and Xavier should be aspiring to be that team. Not saying anything less is a failure, but those should be our aspirations.

Expecting to dance 9 out of 10 years is pretty darn optimistic. That is pretty much the ceiling for teams not named Duke or Kansas. Hell, even Arizona got a bid there was no way they deserved six or seven years back when they got in as a 12 seed.

If you hit 7 of ten you are doing pretty good in this league.

I think as a conference-
Disappointing would be a year like 2 years ago. Yeah 4 teams- but 1 in PIG and other only in due to winning Conference Tourney- or 3 with 1 in PIG
Normal would be a year where you get 4-5 teams, with good seeds for all of them. Getting at least 2 to the sweet 16.
Exceptional would be 6 teams. Pretty much last year, except with good tourney success.

I've only been an MU fan since my senior year of high school. In that time my expectations went from elite 8 08-09 (dissapointed) to make the tournament in 09-10, to make the tournament in 10-11 (exceeded expectations) to elite 8 in 11-12 (dissapointed) to sweet 16 in 12-13 (exceeded expectations).

So in summation tourney success I define by the year. Some years when you are topping out at recieving votes in the polls and have huge flaws in your team just making the tournament is success other years when you top out at #8 in the country and have tremendous talent and experience that's been building to that year, even a sweet 16 is a disappointment... let alone a round of 32.

handdownmandown wrote:Expecting to dance 9 out of 10 years is pretty darn optimistic. That is pretty much the ceiling for teams not named Duke or Kansas. Hell, even Arizona got a bid there was no way they deserved six or seven years back when they got in as a 12 seed.

If you hit 7 of ten you are doing pretty good in this league.

I agree that my expectations are VERY optimistic. I can objectively admit that, we as Xavier fans, have lived through a somewhat fantastical existence as basketball fans through the last 20 plus years. I think its been a combination of many years of solid planning, bold execution, LUCK, vision, perseverance, right place/right time, and critical decesion making related to personnel, most notably, our string of coaching hires. And I can be honest enough to say we've been spoiled to a certain extent (although earned in a sense as well), hence my possibly heightened expectations. But I do think Xavier fans understand we are one bad hire away from five plus years of mediocrity, or more. I'd like to think we have protocols and processes in place to limit the possibility of making that fatefully wrong decision. But no one is immune. Our last ten years, as a full body of work, have been exceptional. 9 bids, 5 sweet 16s, one elite 8 (2 elite 8s if you go to 04). Perhaps I'm naive in thinking that type of consistent success is sustainable for a small Jesuit school of 6000 students in Cincinnati. Perhaps we're still trending upwards. Only time will tell.

As a fan, running a close second to living and dying with my own team, is having a real, sincere and vested interest in the results of my fellow conference mates. I can honestly say that I try to watch all of the nine other teams games, especially during the non conference schedule. I was never like that when we were in the Atlantic 10. Not even close. I see real possibilities of consistent and sustained success for each and every team in this conference. Even If your team has hit a rough patch, short lived or prolonged, I see potential. With Seton Hall, one of my most exciting memories as a kid growing up was the PJ Carlessimo led team that lost one of the best National Championship games in history to a Rumeal Robison led Michigan team, they've been there before, they can get there again; why can't Depaul become Chicago's team/new NBA style building under construction, one of the greatest cities on the planet; Providence and their rich history of Final Fours, Nit Champions when it was THE tournament, with a top notch coach that has them trending the right direction; Marquette with their rich NCAA tourney history, legendary coach(s), recent Final Four, iconic player in Wade, and quite possibly in the best financial position of any team in the conference; St Johns, New York City's team with their native son at the helm, their history and home court speak for themselves (The Garden); Butler, back to back National Championship games, playing at Hinkle Fieldhouse, one of the true iconic bastions of basketball at any level, and the venue for probably the most famous shot in high school basketball history (Bobby Plump, "the shot"/Hoosiers); Georgetown, incredible history aside, if their basketball team can consistently match their esteemed standing in the academic world, you are looking at another Duke; Creighton, one of the great venues in all of college basketball coupled with one of the most boisterous and loyal fan bases in the land, a true sleeping giant that has EVERYTHING in place to be spectacularly successful moving forward; and the flagship, Villanova. The coach, the brand,the Philly Five, and the history are all there. A couple of Final Fours and you are looking at potentially a true "Blue Blood". I believe that EVERY team in this conference has the potential to be special. Here's hoping for an exceptional 2015-2016 season.

As a Georgetown fan I expect to make the dance every year (even down years). That's the floor.

Hoyas:
Disappointing-missing the NCAA any year
Normal-Round of 32 minimal
Exceptional-Final 4

BEast Conference:
Disappointing-4 bids or less with no Sweet 16 teams
Normal 5-6 bids with at least 1 Elite 8 & 1 Sweet 16 team
Exceptional 5-6 bids with two teams in Final 4

I'm waiting for the year that we get 5 teams in the final four! That'll be exceptional.

As a Creighton homer I expect to make the dance every year (even down years). That's the floor. The Jays have pulled conf tourney crowns as 2-4 seeds before. It's been decades since our last SS...but I am still keeper of the Grail (IJ and the Holy Grail). "choose wisely".
Some always ask - would you rather have sustained successes or Butler's btb FF's. Yesterday when I was young I always voted Sustained Success. I'm old n decrepit now - give me the 2 Final Fours (2 championship games). Some say it takes talent, great team play, and a little luck - I'll take it. I plan to witness 2 Creighton MBB NCAA Championships before I cash in my chips...hopefully sooner than later. C'mon Jays n Coach Mac!

Jays:
Disappointing-missing the NCAA any year
Normal-Sweet 16
Exceptional-Final 4, NCAA Championship

Big East Conference:
Disappointing-4 bids or less with no Sweet 16 teams
Normal 4-5 bids with at least 2 Sweet 16 teams, 1 Elite 8
Exceptional 5-6 bids with 2 teams in Final 4, Nat'l Champion

Georgetown made the round of 32 last year. My goal for them this year is to make the Sweet 16 and to finish in the top 2 in the Big East. A pretty young group with 5 Sophomores, 3 Freshmen and a transfer from Louisville I still haven't seen yet.

Goal for the Big East is to get half the conference into the tournament and have 2 teams make the 2nd weekend.