The Holy Land of Hoops

The HLOH board seems to have hit a serious lull in this off-season. Thought I'd try to get some discussion going. Big Men ranking in conference?

My take:

1. Reynolds - X
2. Ochefu - V
3. Fisher - Marq
4. Delgado - SHU
5. Obekpa - SJU
6. Chrabacz - But
7. Hamilton - Dep
8. Bradley Hayes - Gtwn
9. Justin Patton - Cre.
10. Alex Owens - PC

Thoughts? Discuss.

GumbyDamnit! wrote:The HLOH board seems to have hit a serious lull in this off-season. Thought I'd try to get some discussion going. Big Men ranking in conference?

My take:

1. Reynolds - X
2. Ochefu - V
3. Fisher - Marq
4. Delgado - SHU
5. Obekpa - SJU
6. Chrabacz - But
7. Hamilton - Dep
8. Bradley Hayes - Gtwn
9. Justin Patton - Cre.
10. Alex Owens - PC

Thoughts? Discuss.

Really up in the air next year, IMO. I looked at all of them on a per 40 minute basis during conference play and all of them have their strengths and weaknesses. Average rank of Minutes/game; pts/40, rebounds/40, shooting % makes the list:

1. Ochefu, 2. Reynolds, 3. Delgado, 4. Groselle, 5. Fischer, 6. Copeland (I tossed him in as Hayes was awful, but realistically Govan is likely to earn the minutes here), 7. Chrabacz, 8. Hamilton, 9. Obepka, 10. Hayes (I didn't rank PC as Owens is almost their only option there. Let me know if I missed someone)


- Ochefu is highly productive and he was hitting some jumpers last year that make him even more dangerous in their system
- Reynolds will have to show he can work without Stainbrook taking up space and attention. It'd be great if he could develop more polish in the post. He also needs to stay out of foul trouble (6 per 40 in conference play)
- Delgado was very effective last year and the fact that he played that many minutes is very impressive. Needs to make some FT's
- Creighton's starter is likely Groselle (14 minutes a game in conference play last year (18 down the stretch), 18.9 pts, 9 rebounds, .632, per 40 played in conference). Health has been his big issue so he's not likely to play more than 20 a game. Patton, Hanson and Hegner can all fill in behind him. Patton is probably a year or two away from ranking a lot higher on this list. So given the minutes, Groselle isn't likely this high, but that kind of production from Groselle even for just 20 a game should put him higher on the list than 9th.
- Fischer was efficient in scoring underneath, but was one of the worst rebounding centers in the conference last year (5.8 per 40 in conference play). He's young and may improve there with other help up front.
- Will Chrabacz start at center? Will Fowler or someone else get minutes there? Chrabacz only gets 4.9 boards/40 and is undersized defensively, but is a tough player who can force opposing bigs to cover him outside.
- Hamilton didn't take as big of a jump last year as I would have liked to see. A new coach may help
- Obekpa doesn't impress on the stat line, but is a very important defensive player who can change games on that end. So he's really higher than this even if the stats don't look so hot.
- Hayes was even worse than Reynolds for fouls (8.3/40 minutes) and horrible in every category, but he played well in some minutes in the tourney and played so sporadically that last year is hard to judge. I guess Govan, Derrickson, and Copeland (does JTIII go small like that?) may all have a shot at those minutes.

Incoming Guys:
Owen - PC
Patton - Creighton
Govan - GT
Heldt - Marquette
Fowler - Butler
Barry - DePaul.

I'd replace Hayes with Govan.

Also from reading the providence board it seems like it's unlikely Owen's will qualify.

My ranking:

1) Ochefu
2) Reynolds
3) Charbacz
4) Delgado
5) Obekpa
6) Govan
7) Bentil
8) Fischer
9) Grosselle
10 Hamilton

Only looking at guys who will actually play center so not including guys who will play PF especially if they're more perimeter oriented like Copeland or ellenson.

Also don't think there's a big difference 1-8 here with 9 and 10 being a bit behind the rest.

chicagojayfan wrote:

GumbyDamnit! wrote:The HLOH board seems to have hit a serious lull in this off-season. Thought I'd try to get some discussion going. Big Men ranking in conference?

My take:

1. Reynolds - X
2. Ochefu - V
3. Fisher - Marq
4. Delgado - SHU
5. Obekpa - SJU
6. Chrabacz - But
7. Hamilton - Dep
8. Bradley Hayes - Gtwn
9. Justin Patton - Cre.
10. Alex Owens - PC

Thoughts? Discuss.

Really up in the air next year, IMO. I looked at all of them on a per 40 minute basis during conference play and all of them have their strengths and weaknesses. Average rank of Minutes/game; pts/40, rebounds/40, shooting % makes the list:

1. Ochefu, 2. Reynolds, 3. Delgado, 4. Groselle, 5. Fischer, 6. Copeland (I tossed him in as Hayes was awful, but realistically Govan is likely to earn the minutes here), 7. Chrabacz, 8. Hamilton, 9. Obepka, 10. Hayes (I didn't rank PC as Owens is almost their only option there. Let me know if I missed someone)


- Ochefu is highly productive and he was hitting some jumpers last year that make him even more dangerous in their system
- Reynolds will have to show he can work without Stainbrook taking up space and attention. It'd be great if he could develop more polish in the post. He also needs to stay out of foul trouble (6 per 40 in conference play)
- Delgado was very effective last year and the fact that he played that many minutes is very impressive. Needs to make some FT's
- Creighton's starter is likely Groselle (14 minutes a game in conference play last year (18 down the stretch), 18.9 pts, 9 rebounds, .632, per 40 played in conference). Health has been his big issue so he's not likely to play more than 20 a game. Patton, Hanson and Hegner can all fill in behind him. Patton is probably a year or two away from ranking a lot higher on this list. So given the minutes, Groselle isn't likely this high, but that kind of production from Groselle even for just 20 a game should put him higher on the list than 9th.
- Fischer was efficient in scoring underneath, but was one of the worst rebounding centers in the conference last year (5.8 per 40 in conference play). He's young and may improve there with other help up front.
- Will Chrabacz start at center? Will Fowler or someone else get minutes there? Chrabacz only gets 4.9 boards/40 and is undersized defensively, but is a tough player who can force opposing bigs to cover him outside.
- Hamilton didn't take as big of a jump last year as I would have liked to see. A new coach may help
- Obekpa doesn't impress on the stat line, but is a very important defensive player who can change games on that end. So he's really higher than this even if the stats don't look so hot.
- Hayes was even worse than Reynolds for fouls (8.3/40 minutes) and horrible in every category, but he played well in some minutes in the tourney and played so sporadically that last year is hard to judge. I guess Govan, Derrickson, and Copeland (does JTIII go small like that?) may all have a shot at those minutes.

Incoming Guys:
Owen - PC
Patton - Creighton
Govan - GT
Heldt - Marquette
Fowler - Butler
Barry - DePaul.

Our new guy Sima is going to get a lot of playing time this year as well.

1- Delgado, Reynolds, Ochecfu

2- Obekpa, Fischer, Chrabacz

1- Delgado, Reynolds, Ochecfu

2- Obekpa, Fischer, Chrabacz

hoyahooligan wrote:I'd replace Hayes with Govan.

Also from reading the providence board it seems like it's unlikely Owen's will qualify.

My ranking:

1) Ochefu
2) Reynolds
3) Charbacz
4) Delgado
5) Obekpa
6) Govan
7) Bentil
8) Fischer
9) Grosselle
10 Hamilton

Only looking at guys who will actually play center so not including guys who will play PF especially if they're more perimeter oriented like Copeland or ellenson.

Also don't think there's a big difference 1-8 here with 9 and 10 being a bit behind the rest.

I like your list, hh.

Reynolds does have to learn to play with a cooler head. I'll miss Matt, but I believe X will be fine up front otherwise.

Charbacz can be scary, or so he seems. Scary in the sense that he seems to be able to go out and punish you behind the arc at key times.

Overall, Ochefu leads this pack, and that's pretty clear.

I think the interesting one to watch will be Obekpa. You have got to wonder if he does anything else if he's gone. I could see Mullin wanting to set a tone pretty early with a new program and everything.

Xudash wrote:
I like your list, hh.

Reynolds does have to learn to play with a cooler head. I'll miss Matt, but I believe X will be fine up front otherwise.

Charbacz can be scary, or so he seems. Scary in the sense that he seems to be able to go out and punish you behind the arc at key times.

Overall, Ochefu leads this pack, and that's pretty clear.

Xavier should be pretty deep a the 4 and 5 spots this year with Farr, O'Mara and Reynolds. They also have Makinde London, but he didn't play at all last year so I'm not sure what to expect of him. Not necessarily one guy in that group that I am particularly frightened of, but all of them should be good enough to hurt you on a game by game basis.

Butler is going to be undersized as usual unless Nate Fowler comes along quickly, which I would be surprised if he does considering how long it's been since he's played competitive basketball.

Irishdawg wrote:

Xudash wrote:
I like your list, hh.

Reynolds does have to learn to play with a cooler head. I'll miss Matt, but I believe X will be fine up front otherwise.

Charbacz can be scary, or so he seems. Scary in the sense that he seems to be able to go out and punish you behind the arc at key times.

Overall, Ochefu leads this pack, and that's pretty clear.

Xavier should be pretty deep a the 4 and 5 spots this year with Farr, O'Mara and Reynolds. They also have Makinde London, but he didn't play at all last year so I'm not sure what to expect of him. Not necessarily one guy in that group that I am particularly frightened of, but all of them should be good enough to hurt you on a game by game basis.

Butler is going to be undersized as usual unless Nate Fowler comes along quickly, which I would be surprised if he does considering how long it's been since he's played competitive basketball.

Reynolds if he plays with a cooler head will have a great year next year. Ideally I would like to see most of Reynolds time at Center. Farr is serviceable, but if playing more than 20 minutes a game X will be in trouble. I am very optimistic that London will be able to take the bulk of the Power Forward minutes, with Help From O'Mara, and Blueitt. O'Mara will hopefully be better than Farr this year.