Conference realignment discussion - v. 2015

[Xudash]

Lol @ all the hate from XU fans. Why are you guys so scared of Dayton. And most ppl know about Dayton and its basketball program.

It continues to amaze me that the Dayton fans try to position this as being about Xavier fearing UD. As I pointed out in an earlier post, Xavier has owned UD essentially since 1980.

Sorry, but you do not get to change the narrative about this. When it is all said and done, your biggest problem is that you are too close in proximity to a current Big East program. That program happens to be Xavier. Otherwise, and I am still getting a chuckle out of someone trying to defend O'Brien's coaching record, you guys haven't proven that you have a clue about putting together a sustainable basketball program that actually wins where it matters. On that note, this is not the time to bring up Archie Miller, because he is not going to stay at UD much longer. If anyone knows about career aspirations when it comes to a member of the Miller family, it would be a Xavior fan.

Dayton's record with respect to naming head coaches is abysmal. There is no other way to look at it. Beyond that and any other program related metrics, it simply does not make sense to focus on having another program in Southwest Ohio, given the television metrics that exist for that region.

Finally, most people don't know about UD. That is a ridiculous position to take.

[JPSchmack]

Lol @ all the hate from XU fans. Why are you guys so scared of Dayton. And most ppl know about Dayton and its basketball program.

It continues to amaze me that the Dayton fans try to position this as being about Xavier fearing UD. As I pointed out in an earlier post, Xavier has owned UD essentially since 1980.

Sorry, but you do not get to change the narrative about this. When it is all said and done, your biggest problem is that you are too close in proximity to a current Big East program. That program happens to be Xavier. Otherwise, and I am still getting a chuckle out of someone trying to defend O'Brien's coaching record, you guys haven't proven that you have a clue about putting together a sustainable basketball program that actually wins where it matters. On that note, this is not the time to bring up Archie Miller, because he is not going to stay at UD much longer. If anyone knows about career aspirations when it comes to a member of the Miller family, it would be a Xavior fan.

Dayton's record with respect to naming head coaches is abysmal. There is no other way to look at it. Beyond that and any other program related metrics, it simply does not make sense to focus on having another program in Southwest Ohio, given the television metrics that exist for that region.

Finally, most people don't know about UD. That is a ridiculous position to take.

I don’t think it’s “fear,” but elitism. You thoroughly enjoy being able to stiff arm UD and keep them out of the league.

But what’s baffling to me is this mindset: “Oh, Dayton was only able to make the NCAA Tournament once Xavier and Temple left.”

I will suggest that’s totally 100% true. They’ve been capable of making the NCAAs, and winning games once they got in. But they couldn’t get in while losing to Xavier 2-3 times per season, dropping a few other games along the way, and being just below the bubble cut-line because of those losses. I’d say that generally speaking, with obvious year-to-year ebbs and flows, EVERY PROGRAM exists along those lines: Programs “Are who they are” and most the differences are administrative. When Xavier missed the NCAA’s in the A10, it wasn’t because their program got worse, so much as the league had a terrible scheduling model (Which Xavier opposed) and it dragged their RPI below the line.

This is the general concept behind “how conferences work.” And why it’s unbelievably smart for Xavier to WANT Dayton. A team that wins OOC left and right, schedules to position themselves around the bubble every year. And STRUGGLES to beat really good conference opponents.

You could pencil in Dayton at 7-11 to 9-9 every single season they’re playing a Home & Home in the Big East with Xavier. The 9-9 years, the strength of the conference gets them an 11 seed, and the conference more money, where they can “upset” Ohio State, Syracuse, Stanford, etc. And in the 7-11 years, they head to the NIT at 18-14 overall.

That helps your league way more than staying at 10 teams does. You bring in someone who helps you, but isn’t a threat to you at all. That’s ideal.

[Ball Turret Gunner]

That's good enough for me- bring Dayton in. Where else do we see this seething anger other than a X fan reacting to anything UD? Will be fun to watch.

You haven't seen the half of it.

[Xudash]

That's good enough for me- bring Dayton in. Where else do we see this seething anger other than a X fan reacting to anything UD? Will be fun to watch.

You haven't seen the half of it.

And they're coming out of the woodwork now.

[marquette]

DePaul was just fine in C-USA when they were kicking the crap out of ECU, Tulane, USF, Houston and So Miss, and they hit the cellar in the 18-team Big East and are still trying to recover. How competitive in the mega-Big East were Providence & Seton Hall from 2001-2013?

There were one or two other notable teams in that league. Off the top of my head Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, and Memphis were all there while DePaul was "kicking the crap out of ECU, Tulane, USF, Houston, and So Miss."

[GibsoniaPA]

That's good enough for me- bring Dayton in. Where else do we see this seething anger other than a X fan reacting to anything UD? Will be fun to watch.

You haven't seen the half of it.

And they're coming out of the woodwork now.

Just stop it X fans. As I posted before I have no affiliation with UD, do not even know an alumni. Also as I posted before, its fair for UD fans to post on 2 topics- expansion and on the school itself. While I do see much defensiveness by UD posters and some that try too hard to sell their school, I maintain that X posters (not all) have an unhealthy disdain (if you prefer that over anger) for all things Dayton:

by PMThor » Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:35 pm
I will not be watching, because watching dayton make a mockery of my favorite sport makes me physically ill. All I can say is I hope Providence absolutely destroys the cryers by 20 and their fans get lost on the drive home. Go Friars!

by American X » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:48 pm
Friars, destroy these Flyers. Rid this tournament of this scourge. All of Xavier is behind you.

by jaxalum » Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:42 pm
This board would immediately become an unreadable, bloated, oversaturated, mouth breathing, backwater pile of delusional and nonsensical rants. Besides that, they are fantastic!

On posts from other fan bases:

billyjack » Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:10 pm
Dayton fans i met at a URI game were really nice. They seem to really like and respect college hoops. Talented team. I think we should win if we don't have one of our zombie-like Brown games, but it should be competitive game, and anything can happen.

billyjack » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:33 am
Sorry fellow BE fans, definitely a winnable game. Dayton has a good gritty team and they have great fans, and I'll be rooting for them until they bump into a BE team. The crowd wasn't a factor really, we've played in more hostile settings.

by lolhoya » Sat Mar 21, 2015 12:42 am
Hats off to Dayton and their fans, though. They played a great game and they have great fans that really show up.

gosports1 » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:01 am
Good luck Dayton and the Big East. Wait til next year PC

Granted a small sample size, but I'm just trying to make a quick point. All private Catholic BB schools should be supportive, those that are non BE schools are not the enemy.

[Hoopfan]

I'm glad you guys make the decisions for the schools you "represent"

[Bill Marsh]

Lol @ all the hate from XU fans. Why are you guys so scared of Dayton. And most ppl know about Dayton and its basketball program.

It continues to amaze me that the Dayton fans try to position this as being about Xavier fearing UD. As I pointed out in an earlier post, Xavier has owned UD essentially since 1980.

Sorry, but you do not get to change the narrative about this. When it is all said and done, your biggest problem is that you are too close in proximity to a current Big East program. That program happens to be Xavier.

Sorry, but I'm not getting why proximity to another program in the conference is a problem.

[Bill Marsh]

That's good enough for me- bring Dayton in. Where else do we see this seething anger other than a X fan reacting to anything UD? Will be fun to watch.

I believe you are a Dayton fan. You are making jaxalum's point. You do not have a say in this. And try getting past the idea that it is about anger; you guys have not done anything that warrants your inclusion in the Big East.

Actually they have more going for them than just about any other candidate.

[Bill Marsh]

Another factor to consider regarding expansion is perception. Regardless of what schools the Big East would take in the next round of expansion, it is highly probable that they will be coming from the Atlantic 10 (Dayton, Saint Louis, VCU, etc.). In taking Butler and Xavier from the A10 in 2013, it needs to be careful about creating and establishing the perception that the Big East will just continually poach the "hot" team from the A10 every few years. Look what happened to the American Conference - with UConn, Cincinnati and USF (both leftover original Big East schools), they poached Tulane, East Carolina, Memphis, Houston, SMU, UCF and Tulsa from Conference USA. Today, numerous critics label them as C-USA 2.0 - as UConn, Temple and Navy are the only schools that have never played under the C-USA banner (Cincinnati and USF were C-USA members until 2005).

While the ACC poached numerous Big East schools over the years (Miami, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville and Notre Dame), the ACC brand was already established. They were never in danger of losing their brand or their image. The ACC is also not fighting to be recognized as a power in football or basketball. The Big East, despite strong showings in its first two seasons, is still fighting to be considered an elite basketball conference.

I cannot stress this enough, but the current and reconfigured Big East needs at least several seasons under its belt to rebuild its image and its brand. The 10 schools need to work together, strengthen rivalries and continue putting on exciting games of basketball. Only then will any expansion school(s) be able to be assimilated into the conference and grow into a basketball power. Any school that wishes to be considered a Big East expansion candidate needs to begin putting serious resources into their basketball programs (if they have not yet done so already) and aim for sustained basketball success (repeated NCAA/NIT bids).

You've just made an excellent argument for why the Big East should expand with Gonzaga and BYU.