NCAA Tourney - Providence vs. Dayton 9:57 p.m. truTV

[Omaha1]

I'm just wondering. Do a lot of you post on school or conference boards of a league you've never belonged to? Why are there so many damn Dayton trolls here?

[billyjack]

In reality, the flagrant on Dunn should have been called the other way according to Doug Gottlieb, who was providing color commentary on the game. So, no, it's not still a foul. If they're going to let the defender get in that tight and make contact with the offensive player, then it's a "play on" as Gottlieb said. If they're going to call it right, then they should have called the foul on the .dayton player before Dunn ever made his move.

Bill Marsh, where in the rulebook does it say player can elbow another in the face? Yes the defender was in tight on him so Dunn could barely move. Thats called good defense! The defender has a right to his position. If a player swings his elbow around, the defender is entitled to stay in his position and draw the foul. I believe the term Gottlieb used was, "Davis is way too close to Dunn." I nearly laughed when I heard it. I'm sure Dunn would have liked more space but that doesn't mean he can initiate contact to the opponents head in order to free some up.

No, Gottlieb said the Dayton guard should have been called for the hand-checking which happened immediately before Dunn got whistled.

[billyjack]

No argument refs were terrible, but there were awful calls both ways. The T was bogus. The refs also missed the obvious travel by PC in a critical part of the second. Also, Pollard's fourth foul and Wehrli's third were terrible calls, should have been non calls, there was nothing there.

The refs don't account for giving three point shooters wide open looks or not getting back on defense after a made bucket. The Flyers scored atleast five buckets, right after a PC basket, because PC wasn't getting back on defense. Henton forced up a ton of bad shots. The refs don't account for airballing a wide open 3. When Henton took it to the hoop next possession he got the call. When Dunn took it to the hoop he got the call, but when PC is settling for pull up jumpers you're not going to get to the line, no matter where you are playing.

I won't argue playing in Columbus helps, but Dayton travels well where ever they play. I went to Memphis last year, and Dayton ran that town. The Memphis paper said it looked like Dayton was playing at home. There isn't anything else to do in Dayton, besides college basketball, and the town loves its team.

Look, i don't really mind that you Flyer fans have invaded this board today. Great fanbase, i like your team, and as i said I'm rooting for you guys until you meet up with a BE team.

But don't pretend the refs didn't kill the Friars. Don't pretend things were evened out. They weren't. Have the balls to admit it. Or fans coming here telling BE fans that PC is an outside shooting team, because the 10 fanbases here know we're not, this has been discussed all year on this board, and we know you haven't seen PC play this year.

You guys are understandably excited on the win, but when you Dayton fans do this shit, come here hours after a game acting like West Virginia fans, you look like a bunch of out of touch backwards meatheads... exactly what Xavier fans have warned us about.

[mccartmz]

I think what Dayton fans crave is respect. You want to make excuses about the refs and where the game was played like Dayton only won because of those factors. Just admit you lost to a talented team and I'll be happy.

[redmen9194]

Why does anyone have to admit anything to Dayton? Who cares about Dayton? I think about Dayton during the season as much as I think about, oh I don't know, Florida Atlantic let's say. I have no idea if Dayton is an actual good team or not. I guess they play Fordham and St. Bonaventure in conference play? I guess if they beat those two teams that makes them good?

[ProvidenceNJ]

Tried to register with Providence's scout board but no such luck. Felt like venting here.

Providence's #1 problems is they travel poorly. Traveling poorly and having a small enrollment is a scarlet letter come tournament time. The committee wants to have full arenas with good atmospheres for television. Providence only sold 350 tickets from their allotment -- that's piss poor. The committee hedged their bets by putting Dayton in the East region with a chance to face a team that travels poorly and has little national recognition/interest. Let's examine the 11 seeds: Dayton, UCLA, Boise State, BYU, Ole Miss, and Texas. Only fans near Columbus, OH that are crazy enough to attend a second round game tipping-off after 10 pm in droves is Dayton.

Providence's poor traveling wasn't an issue when the program was irrelevant, but it's going to continue to be a problem if Providence continues to make the tournament. If Providence traveled well like Dayton, then Columbus would have been a less hostile environment or the committee would have put Dayton in another region because they would be confident the arena would have a good atmosphere.

With all that being said Providence played terrible last night and Dayton had their way with us. I respect Dayton's willingness to travel and enthusiasm for the Flyers.

Moving forward: Providence needs to address the issue of traveling. Providence's program is largely bouyed by local casual fans, but these aren't the type of fans that will travel across the country just to see the team play. Hopefully other Friar fans can convey my thoughts to the Scout board to generate interest on how traveling can be improved.

[GibsoniaPA]

Redmen, you make a fair point. Dayton does not need to be relevant to you, and the UD fanbase is cool with that. The reason they are interested in the BE is obvious- they see themselves as your BB peers in many ways. And to a person (IMHO only) they see the BE as something to aspire to join. I have seldom read anything too critical or too disrespectful from them. I read your annoyance but this thread after all is a Providence UD game thread. Their very prideful and just can't resist defending their school- as long as it is done respectfully and only on the threads that are relevant to UD (this game, future expansion) I don't think that's out of line.

[Bill Marsh]

One thing to remember about the flagrant- even if it's not called as a flagrant it's still a foul. Dunn got caught reaching into the cookie jar a minute later. Now the question is, would he have done that same thing if he hadn't been called for the flagrant? Very possibly.

About the FT difference- 8 of the FT were shot in the last 80 seconds of the game by Dayton when PC was trying to foul on purpose. So the difference was really 22-7. Still bad, but not crazy.

Bottom line, when Henton and Dunn shoot 11-39 from the field- you aren't going to win many games. I thought PC settled way too much for outside shots.

Oh- the idiot who called the T- I think it's Tom Eades. His 40th T of the season. He's tied for 2nd for the season in most T's called. Don't think he needs to be doing any more games....

In reality, the flagrant on Dunn should have been called the other way according to Doug Gottlieb, who was providing color commentary on the game. So, no, it's not still a foul. If they're going to let the defender get in that tight and make contact with the offensive player, then it's a "play on" as Gottlieb said. If they're going to call it right, then they should have called the foul on the .dayton player before Dunn ever made his move.

A 22-7 FT discrepancy is not crazy? In what world?

I agree that Providence shot poorly, but the refs set the tone early and essentially took Providence's most important player out of the game at a key point. The game was called the way Dayton needed to play their game so they could defend physically and the way the game was called restricted Providence from doing what they normally do. It was Dayton's lucky day.

In reality Bill- it was whistled a foul on Dunn. They then went to the monitor and upgraded it to a flagrant. At that point, when they went to the monitor, there is NO option to rescind the foul. None. Gottlieb was saying what he thought the rule should be, but the fact is that's not what the rule ACTUALLY is.

The Xavier/Ole Miss game- Xavier took 21 FT, Ole Miss 5 FT. It happens.

The refs didn't take Dunn out with the Flagrant. That was 1 foul. He rather stupidly reached in about 2 minutes later. The next 9 minutes it was a 12-5 run for Dayton, with PC having 6 turnovers when he was on the bench.

No, that's not what Gottlieb said. He said that under the current rules, the Dayton player should have been called for a foul before the Dunn foul was called because the Dayton defender had his hands on Dunn, which is not allowed under the current rules. In fact, it was supposed to have become a point of emphasis last year.

After making that point, Gottlieb then went on to say that the flagrant foul rule should be changed because it is not doing what it was designed to do. There was nothing intentional about what Dunn did, but the rule was designed to eliminate intentional elbows to the face, according to Gottlieb.

The Xavier-Mississippi game is irrelevant. Whenever it happens, it begs for an explanation. And 21-5 is not 30-7.

Dunn "stupidly" reached in? He's 4th in the country in steals! He has incredibly quick hands. He makes that play all the time without getting called for it. Not last night. And yes, after he went to the bench, PC committed 6 TOs. That's the whole point. The timing of the fouls was critical. He was replaced with a freshman in his first NCAA tournament game. Cooley wasn't able to bring the frosh in at a point in the game he thought would be okay for his ability and level of experience. He had to bring him in at a point dictated by the refs.

Your team got an incredible break and you don't even realize it. The refs put you on 3B a few minutes into the game. You opened your eyes and thought your team had hit a triple.

[Bill Marsh]

It's time to give Dayton some love. How many small private BB Catholic schools outside the BE do you see achieving what they have these last 2 years?

Pre-game board comments here and on the PC board were often about UD just not having the skills nor the athleticism to compete with a top tier Big East team. That UD would likely not even be competitive with PC. That may have been your father's UD program. This one is very well coached, has skilled players at every position, and has heart that few teams can match.

UD was screwed royally with their seeding. Their 32 RPI and wins were simply dismissed by the NCAA. They nearly lost the oppty to be in the 64 and had to bounce back from a terrible F4 game start and then dominated the last 10 minutes of the game against a fresh legs to make it to Columbus ( a game they should have never been a part of). Tomorrow will be their 6th single elimination game in 10 days. With a 6 +1 walk on roster. If they were in the BE they would be the toast of the league this am.

Completely agree with this.

I never had a complaint with UD in this game. They deserve credit for capitalizing on the situation.

My complaint is with the refs who never let PC play their normal game. That was capped off with the T against Cooley, which added insult to injury.

As I posted before the game, I expected this to be a close game in line with the 3 point spread PC was favored by. I had respect for UD and the challenge that they posed. It should have been a better game than it was.

[marquette]

The officiating was questionable to say the least. That said, UD played a great game and PC did not. The flyers are a well-coached and motivated team this year. It is impressive what they've done with a short bench. Congrats UD, condolences PC.