The Holy Land of Hoops

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/jeff-go ... Underrated

its an insider article but #%$# ESPN so here it is:

"There were minimal expectations entering the season, but now everyone is touting the league as one of the elite after a strong non-league performance. However, I’m still not buying that it’s one of the top three leagues in the country. I just don’t see anyone in the league with the potential to go deep in the tournament besides Villanova. "

I did not respond well to that and got into it with Goodman

https://twitter.com/BasketballOP/status ... 9811845120

we are deep 1-10. but I happen to agree with his statement regarding potential deep tourney team. besides nova, and i think they also have some flaws, everyone has some serious flaws.

at the same time, i am hopeful that over a long grueling BE season each team will get better and shore up some things before March.

BEhomer wrote:we are deep 1-10. but I happen to agree with his statement regarding potential deep tourney team. besides nova, and i think they also have some flaws, everyone has some serious flaws.

at the same time, i am hopeful that over a long grueling BE season each team will get better and shore up some things before March.

I also agree witht the BE's national championship contenders but to be fair, no one at ESPN took that stand last season when they were stroking the A-10's shaft.

Nor are they saying this about the PAC12 which is Arizona and everyone else. Unless they are sold on Utah, who is 3-2 vs. opponents in the top 50 RPI

It is way early and I know they are young but seton hall could make a run IMO. They have that look.

St John's, Georgetown, Butler are the toss ups to me. First off, I don't want to get ahead myself, I am aware SJU might not even make it. But if all 3 of those listed teams do, i feel all 3 are capable of making runs, and yet all 3 are capable of losing first round.

I don't care that much about the whole "who can make deep runs" thing. Let's just get 7 in and then root for all of them to do damage. I don't even dislike any of the teams in the BE this year. I will enjoy rooting for everyone in the post season.

I know most of you hate DLo and SJU but whatever. I can't wait for march.

RedStormHoops wrote:It is way early and I know they are young but seton hall could make a run IMO. They have that look.

St John's, Georgetown, Butler are the toss ups to me. First off, I don't want to get ahead myself, I am aware SJU might not even make it. But if all 3 of those listed teams do, i feel all 3 are capable of making runs, and yet all 3 are capable of losing first round.

I don't care that much about the whole "who can make deep runs" thing. Let's just get 7 in and then root for all of them to do damage. I don't even dislike any of the teams in the BE this year. I will enjoy rooting for everyone in the post season.

I know most of you hate DLo and SJU but whatever. I can't wait for march.

I think Seton Hall would need Sterling Gibbs to go all Kemba Walker/Shabazz Napier on everyone for them to really make a deep run. Hope you're right though, I'd love to see it!

TheBasketballOpinion wrote:http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/jeff-goodman/post?id=4553&ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_GoodmanOverratedUnderrated

its an insider article but #%$# ESPN so here it is:

"There were minimal expectations entering the season, but now everyone is touting the league as one of the elite after a strong non-league performance. However, I’m still not buying that it’s one of the top three leagues in the country. I just don’t see anyone in the league with the potential to go deep in the tournament besides Villanova. "

I did not respond well to that and got into it with Goodman

https://twitter.com/BasketballOP/status ... 9811845120

Goodman does a complete 180 in his analysis that left my head spinning:

1. "Everyone is touting the league as one of the elite after a strong non league performance."

Okay. I can buy that. Makes sense.

2. "Not buying that it's one of the top 3 leagues in the country. Just don't see anyone with the potential to go deep in the tournament except Villanova."

Whaaat??? How did we get from #1 to #2?

First of all, being an elite league doesn't necessarily equate to getting teams deep into the tournament. We have elite leagues that fail to get teams deep into the tournament every year. Remember 2011 when everyone was burying the Big
East when only 2 teams got to the Sweet 16 and only one advanced beyond that? Everyone's forgotten that because UConn did the unanticipated and ran the table. But the league did not do well in the postseason when it got 9 bids. Or was it 11? It happens every year.

Second, Goodman is getting way ahead of himself. He's substituting his judgment for reality and then treating his judgment as though it actually means anything in the real world. So what if he can't see anyone besides Villanova going deep into the tournament? Did he see UConn winning it all last year? Or Wichita State going to the Final Four 3 years ago? Or VCU? or Butler back-to-back? Or George Mason? Or any of the major conference lower seeds who surprise every year?

I've got to ask him, why can't any of the Big East teams go deep into the tournament. Did Butler not beat North Carolina? Doesn't that mean they're capable of beating an elite team? Why not in the tournament? Didn't Providence beat Notre Dame? Didn't Villanova beat VCU? Didn't St. John's beat Syracuse? Heck, even Creighton beat Oklahoma. If anything that the Big East has done this year, it's that they've beaten top teams from other conferences. The NCAA tournament is a crap shoot. It's a lot about match ups and a little bit about luck as well. Claiming that the Big east doesn't have teams that can go deep in the tournament is complete nonsense.

What am I missing here?

The problem is that its becoming a chorus among national CBB talking heads.

Look at Gottleib's comments, the ESPN graphic leaving off the BE when compairing confernce records, etc. etc.

There are some serious haters out there right now.

Hall2012 wrote:

RedStormHoops wrote:It is way early and I know they are young but seton hall could make a run IMO. They have that look.

St John's, Georgetown, Butler are the toss ups to me. First off, I don't want to get ahead myself, I am aware SJU might not even make it. But if all 3 of those listed teams do, i feel all 3 are capable of making runs, and yet all 3 are capable of losing first round.

I don't care that much about the whole "who can make deep runs" thing. Let's just get 7 in and then root for all of them to do damage. I don't even dislike any of the teams in the BE this year. I will enjoy rooting for everyone in the post season.

I know most of you hate DLo and SJU but whatever. I can't wait for march.

I think Seton Hall would need Sterling Gibbs to go all Kemba Walker/Shabazz Napier on everyone for them to really make a deep run. Hope you're right though, I'd love to see it!

I agree but I guess I just think it is possible. I saw him hit big shot after big shot against my johnnies. And then, when I was dying for nova to beat seton hall so SJU didn't have to play the cats angry coming off a loss, he hits even more big shots and makes the right passes when nova tried to double team.

And then I think, man AND they have a McDonalds AA injured on the bench who will be ready to go soon. I know I've made it clear with how much I've been talking them up, but seton hall has just been really impressive to me. It's a rivalry between SJU-SHU so I'm not supposed to like them. But being a SJU fan I'm also very big on NYC high school hoops. And this pirate squad is like an NYC high school all star team. I loved these guys when they were in high school, now they are making noise in D1.

I always wanted Lavin to use his recruiting skills to form that NYC squad, but he hasn't done well locally since harkless and obekpa, SHU has done very well locally. I know they had to jump through some hoops to get IW, but the rest are also great players who are proving themselves.

Goodman is a massive tool.

My problem with that is you can pretty much say that about every league but the ACC and Big 12.

SEC - Kentucky and everyone else
P12 - Arizona, Utah and everyone else
B1G - Wisconsin and maybe Maryland and Ohio St. and everyone else

So does having 1 or 2 more highly rated teams and then a terrible group at the bottom make the league itself elite? IMO, it simply makes those teams in the league elite, not the league itself. Also, the NCAA tournament is a complete crapshoot. Judging the elite-ness of a league based simply on that is like judging the strength of a football conference based on how they do in meaningless bowl games. It's fun to do, but all it really says is that one team was better than the other, not that an entire league is better.

Gottlieb's argument on future pros is also asinine. This is a college game in which we should be basing our opinions on college results. Not on future potential of a kid who will never realize that potential while he's in college. It's alright to have a difference of opinion, but to be basing it solely on hypothetical situations really seems to be reaching, IMO.