Well thats all folks

[Bill Marsh]

Think the point Omaha is trying to make is that a single elimination tournament is not a good method to determine the best team in the conference. It's a really small sample size and extremely vulnerable to randomness. Think about it this way: last year Seton Hall upset Villanova and Providence beat St. John's, then Providence beat Seton Hall and then Creighton. Would anyone argue that Providence was the best team in the conference last year? Probably not. That was clearly Villanova.

Clearly Villanova?

Kind of hard to make that argument when Creighton not only won just as many league games as Villanova did but literally blew the doors off Nova - not once but twice.

No, actually it's a very easy argument to make. Going by the math I've been taught since grade school;

16-2 > 14-4

If you want to try to put some weak spin on it and include BET records(weak because neither Nova or Creighton won it); still using grade school math

16-3 > 16-5

If want to try claim Creighton was better than Villanova last year, you have to ignore that Creighton lost to Providence, St. John's, Xavier, and Georgetown.

BTW Bill, the poster you quoted is a Creighton fan, and you're arguing against him that Creighton was clearly the best team in the BE.

Westbrook, you're making an argument. It's unnecessary.

I'm opposing the idea that Villanova was CLEARLY better. While one can make the argument you do, one can also make the argument that both teams won 16 games against conference competition regardless of who won the tournament.

16 = 16

Head-to-head, which is always the first tiebreaker, Creighton was 2-0 vs Villanova and both were blowouts.

2 > 0

The fact that Creighton lost 2 more games is a function of the fact they earned the right to play 2 more games by getting to the conference tournament finals. Villanova list that opportunity by blowing its first round game against an inferior opponent. Winning big games in the clutch matters. Losing opportunities to get more games is the nature of single elimination tournaments. There are no 2nd chances, which is why these are pressure games. Losing a first round game is like missing the front end of a one-and-one. You might just as well have missed both free throws. It counts the same way.

It doesn't matter which argument is right. (Neither is.) The fact that a legitimate argument can be made at all nullifies the statement that Villanova was CLEARLY the best team in the conference. They weren't.

Regardless of the statement being made by a Creighton fan, it's legitimacy has to stand on its own merits, not on it's source. Just as your argument must stand independent of the fact that you're a Villanova fan, as I recall.

[Bill Marsh]

Yep, let's throw overall record out the window because obviously it doesn't mean anything.

Every game matters. Not just the one's you're fired up about.

If you beat the 1st place team one game, then lose to the 7th place team next, guess what, that cancel's out that good win.

Actually some games matter more than others and everyone knows that.

When a team spits the bit and chokes against the 8th place team in the first round of a single elimination tournament, they've forfeited the opportunity to go any further in pursuit of a championship. Everyone knows that going in. That's why those are pressure games. Precisely because so much is riding on them.

When a team wins in the first round of a tournament, they might just as well have gone 0-3 because they lost 3 opportunities to get wins, not just one.

[TheBall]

Bill, I don't disagree with your argument re: nova v Creighton, but ultimately the hypothetical posed was whether providence was the best team, which they clearly were not.

However, conference tournaments are fun, so why not have them?

[Westbrook#36]

Yep, let's throw overall record out the window because obviously it doesn't mean anything.

Every game matters. Not just the one's you're fired up about.

If you beat the 1st place team one game, then lose to the 7th place team next, guess what, that cancel's out that good win.

Actually some games matter more than others and everyone knows that.

When a team spits the bit and chokes against the 8th place team in the first round of a single elimination tournament, they've forfeited the opportunity to go any further in pursuit of a championship. Everyone knows that going in. That's why those are pressure games. Precisely because so much is riding on them.

When a team wins in the first round of a tournament, they might just as well have gone 0-3 because they lost 3 opportunities to get wins, not just one.

Now your just arguing for arguments sake, all BE reg. seasons games all matter exactly the same, and pulling out the "moral victory" of "oh we did better in the BET, but didn't actually win it" card. Nova has reg. season BE championship and Providence has the BET championship, don't see Creighton's name on either trophy.

Any way it's a silly little argument, I just didn't care for some of the wording of some posts, no biggie. That's last year, I'd much rather talk about this year.

[Barley]

Bill, I don't disagree with your argument re: nova v Creighton, but ultimately the hypothetical posed was whether providence was the best team, which they clearly were not.

However, conference tournaments are fun, so why not have them?

This. Let them hang a banner but the regular season champs should get a bigger banner IMO

[stever20]

Bill, I don't disagree with your argument re: nova v Creighton, but ultimately the hypothetical posed was whether providence was the best team, which they clearly were not.

However, conference tournaments are fun, so why not have them?

This. Let them hang a banner but the regular season champs should get a bigger banner IMO

Just not realisitc. The Big East Champion of 2014 is Providence. Period.

[XU85]

If forced to choose one or the other, would you rather your team win the BET or the regular season? I would rather X win the regular season.

[Omaha1]

If forced to choose one or the other, would you rather your team win the BET or the regular season? I would rather X win the regular season.

Agreed.

[stever20]

interesting how all the new teams fans want the regular season but the C7 fans look at things very different.

[Hall2012]

If forced to choose one or the other, would you rather your team win the BET or the regular season? I would rather X win the regular season.

Agreed.

I'd definitely choose the tourney.