Welcome to The Holy Land of Hoops

Buzz Williams former Marquette coach predicts separation (expansion?) soon. This is a podcast:

https://m.soundcloud.com/img-audio/virg ... es-12-1-14

robinreed wrote:Buzz Williams former Marquette coach predicts separation (expansion?) soon. This is a podcast:

https://m.soundcloud.com/img-audio/virg ... es-12-1-14

Thanks for the chuckles. Buzz still blowin' smoke. Feng shui? So erudite. And quite the sophisticate.

Thanks for the link. I fear he may be correct. With UAB dropping football and others likely to follow (UNLV, ISU) the landscape has already started to shift. And the 'success' of the CFB will only encourage further money grabs by the P5.

Take it from this Marquette fan: Buzz is a very good basketball coach, and an excellent recruiter. He is, at often times, labeled as being as crazy as a fox. When it is revealed that he is "right" and/or "wins", he is labeled a "genius". When it is revealed that he is "wrong" and/or "loses", he is labeled a "wacko".

With that being said, he studies the landscape of college athletics like no other - he notoriously sent freedom of information requests to all public universities, looking at football coaches' contracts for use to write up his own Virginia Tech basketball contract, picking and choosing clauses and language he liked.

Do I think he is right about this topic? Yes and no. I think there will be a separation between schools that want to spend money on athletics and those that will not. However, no power conference or the P65 will be able to prevent any school from spending money on their athletic program. March Madness is built on underdogs and cinderella stories. By essentially removing those schools and that topic from the tournament would be a disaster for the networks and college basketball teams.

For the record, the Big East will be a part of that group that "breaks away". Val and the schools have been on record as saying that they will be part of the group that gives full cost of attendance.

I believe all the teams will certainly try and keep up. Not having FB is a blessing when trying to keep up with the F5. You know that Dick Strong will take care of this personally for Marquette.

GoldenWarrior11 wrote:Take it from this Marquette fan: Buzz is a very good basketball coach, and an excellent recruiter. He is, at often times, labeled as being as crazy as a fox. When it is revealed that he is "right" and/or "wins", he is labeled a "genius". When it is revealed that he is "wrong" and/or "loses", he is labeled a "wacko".

With that being said, he studies the landscape of college athletics like no other - he notoriously sent freedom of information requests to all public universities, looking at football coaches' contracts for use to write up his own Virginia Tech basketball contract, picking and choosing clauses and language he liked.

Do I think he is right about this topic? Yes and no. I think there will be a separation between schools that want to spend money on athletics and those that will not. However, no power conference or the P65 will be able to prevent any school from spending money on their athletic program. March Madness is built on underdogs and cinderella stories. By essentially removing those schools and that topic from the tournament would be a disaster for the networks and college basketball teams.

For the record, the Big East will be a part of that group that "breaks away". Val and the schools have been on record as saying that they will be part of the group that gives full cost of attendance.

He's not as smart as he likes to make people think he is. He loves to TELL you about all the numbers he remembers. This is a continuing rationalization for for why left for that s*** job.

You can't have a 64 team tournament (now 68 teams) with 65 or whatever F5 teams. You just can't. It'd make the regular season have much, much less significance. Imagine if MLB said all 30 teams would make the playoffs each year, or even 20/30. The regular season would lose so much value. As a baseball fan, I guarantee I'd watch a lot less of the regular season. That's why the max you see in any playoff system is half the league, and those leagues (NHL and NBA) have best of 5/7 game series in the playoffs rather than a single game. Therefore, it's rare to see a #8 seed upset a #1 seed and the system is not only fair but it still makes fans care enough about the regular season.

So then what? Make it 32 teams? Not impossible, but by every measure you are creating a worse tournament that way.

If they split, I think BE and about 2-3 other conferences will be asked to join.

Even then, I'm still not convinced they will alienate the other hundreds of teams. Before going to SJU for my master's I went to a small college with a D1 basketball program ranked around 300 most years. The majority of college basketball fans from my school rooted for a big time program and my school's program as either a first or second team. Keep in mind, some of these people may be UNC fans in high school for example and didn't get into UNC as their first choice. Once they're at college they could still root for UNC while having their own team to root for in hopes of winning the conference tournament and making the big dance. Or playing that big time program early in the year and hoping for an upset. All those teams the BE has beat up on this year? For the other fanbases those games are the biggest of the year. There's hundreds of those schools out there and they add up, I think for a lot of those people March Madness without the little guys would lose a lot of significance.

adoraz wrote:Even then, I'm still not convinced they will alienate the other hundreds of teams. Before going to SJU for my master's I went to a small college with a D1 basketball program ranked around 300 most years. The majority of college basketball fans from my school rooted for a big time program and my school's program as either a first or second team. Keep in mind, some of these people may be UNC fans in high school for example and didn't get into UNC as their first choice. Once they're at college they could still root for UNC while having their own team to root for in hopes of winning the conference tournament and making the big dance. Or playing that big time program early in the year and hoping for an upset. All those teams the BE has beat up on this year? For the other fanbases those games are the biggest of the year. There's hundreds of those schools out there and they add up, I think for a lot of those people March Madness without the little guys would lose a lot of significance.

Bingo! The F5 gets millions of casual viewers that they're taking for granted. The millions that went to non FBS schools. They are going to scorn half their viewer base. The FCS teams might get an increase in support because of it.

FormulaX wrote:

adoraz wrote:Even then, I'm still not convinced they will alienate the other hundreds of teams. Before going to SJU for my master's I went to a small college with a D1 basketball program ranked around 300 most years. The majority of college basketball fans from my school rooted for a big time program and my school's program as either a first or second team. Keep in mind, some of these people may be UNC fans in high school for example and didn't get into UNC as their first choice. Once they're at college they could still root for UNC while having their own team to root for in hopes of winning the conference tournament and making the big dance. Or playing that big time program early in the year and hoping for an upset. All those teams the BE has beat up on this year? For the other fanbases those games are the biggest of the year. There's hundreds of those schools out there and they add up, I think for a lot of those people March Madness without the little guys would lose a lot of significance.

Bingo! The F5 gets millions of casual viewers that they're taking for granted. The millions that went to non FBS schools. They are going to scorn half their viewer base. The FCS teams might get an increase in support because of it.

If you ask the casual fan their favorite thing about March Madness I guarantee a very large percent would mention the upsets. I think a lot of people would also agree that the first weekend is the best of them all.

What was one of the biggest stories last year? Mercer.
What was one of the biggest stories two years ago? Lehigh.
What was one of the biggest stories in 2010? Butler.

What do all these have in common? Teams Duke lost to or nearly lost to (in Butler's case during the championship game).

Hell, even Robert Morris earned a name for themselves in a tournament most people don't care about.

The entire system works based on the David vs. Goliath matchup. That's what makes it special.

I don't see them shrinking the number of eligible teams at all. I do see them making it harder for small teams to compete, but BE will do everything the F5 does.

GoldenWarrior11 wrote:Take it from this Marquette fan: Buzz is a very good basketball coach, and an excellent recruiter. He is, at often times, labeled as being as crazy as a fox. When it is revealed that he is "right" and/or "wins", he is labeled a "genius". When it is revealed that he is "wrong" and/or "loses", he is labeled a "wacko".

With that being said, he studies the landscape of college athletics like no other - he notoriously sent freedom of information requests to all public universities, looking at football coaches' contracts for use to write up his own Virginia Tech basketball contract, picking and choosing clauses and language he liked.

Do I think he is right about this topic? Yes and no. I think there will be a separation between schools that want to spend money on athletics and those that will not. However, no power conference or the P65 will be able to prevent any school from spending money on their athletic program. March Madness is built on underdogs and cinderella stories. By essentially removing those schools and that topic from the tournament would be a disaster for the networks and college basketball teams.

For the record, the Big East will be a part of that group that "breaks away". Val and the schools have been on record as saying that they will be part of the group that gives full cost of attendance.

This.

If it happens, it will be market driven, not decreed by the P5. They'll do what they'll do. If others can keep up with that, then onward those others go as well. Can you imagine being anywhere else other than the Big East if you're favorite school otherwise isn't a P5 member? Even then, not all P5 members are created equally.

In the long run, thank God we're tied to Fox, because that indirectly ties us to the B1G and Pac 1x. We'll navigate all this well either way.

BTW, I watched Nova dismantle LaSalle last night. I don't believe I've ever noticed a game in Gola before. What an embarrassment of an arena. I would think that LaSalle would be a prime example of a program at risk.