power converences overated

[murphy]

Well written article

Basketball| MAN ABOUT SPORTS

Smaller conferences prove they can play with big boys

by Dave Wiggins



Apr 8, 2014
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Vero Beach, Florida – “Now it’s a disco, but not for Lola . . .

She sits there so refined and drinks herself half-blind”

— Lyrics from “Copacabana”

Hearing Duke basketball coach Mike Krzyzewski’s pre-NCAA tourney whine and then seeing his Blue Devils, a third seed, ousted by unheralded No. 14 seed Mercer in the very first round, MAS couldn’t help but think of the old Barry Manilow hit.

It struck MAS that Coach K — much like the song’s showgirl femme fatale — just can’t deal with the painful present and deludes himself by conjuring up images of past glories.

And he’s joined in that department by a lot of other coaches at big-name schools.

Before March Madness began, Krzyzewski questioned the inclusion of so many Atlantic 10 Conference teams (4) at the expense of several schools from his own Atlantic Coast Conference, which landed “only” six tourney sports.

After all, the A-10 had formerly been a conference that most often saw its tournament champ as its lone representative in the 68-squad field.

Only occasionally would they have a second rep shoehorned in at the bottom of the seedings.

Meanwhile, the ACC would see almost every one of its members that logged a .500 or better conference record included in the field — as many as seven or eight.

But not this year.

Things are different in 2014 college hoops — just as they are on the American nightlife scene.

Slowly but surely, the NCAA tourney selection committee is finally realizing that the so-called “power conferences” no longer are the only places where excellent basketball is played and their picks now reflect this enlightenment.

That’s why they decided to select “bubble team” Dayton as the fourth Atlantic 10 entry instead of adding a seventh ACC squad.

And, lo and behold, Dayton proceeded to oust Atlantic Coast Conference powerhouse Syracuse — a No. 3 tourney seed and No. 1 in the country for much of the regular season — in the second round.

Oh, the irony.

This came after the Flyers had also shown the door to The Big Ten’s Ohio State — another NCAA high-seed staple — in the opening round.

Of the six ACC reps, only Virginia made it out of of the first week alive to join upstart Dayton in the Sweet 16.

It marked the first time in 30 years that Dayton had reached the second week of play.

The Flyers then advanced to the Elite Eight.

Virginia, ACC regular season AND tournament champ, did NOT.

One can only wonder how many other Daytons were out there that could have created more March Madness but were denied access because of big conference bias.

Oh well, better late than never says MAS

Hopefully, the number of relative unknowns in the tourney will increase even more in the future, greatly enhancing the mathematical chances of one of them walking off with the national crown.

Truth be told, the big-name conferences are no longer deserving of six and seven tourney spots. Just four, MAYBE five.

Let’s take one or two spots from them all and give those slots instead to outstanding “mid-major” teams that win regular-season titles over the course of two months but fail to win their end-of-season tourneys and are thus denied big bash entrance.

Were this the case last year, Mercer would also have been deserving of a 2013 NCAA spot.

The Bears, from Macon, Georgia, won the Atlantic Sun Conference regular season crown in ’13, but lost its tourney title tilt to Florida Gulf Coast, which then proceeded to play NCAA Cinderella with their high-flying “Dunk City” attack.

Only recently have a few of the poorly labeled mid-majors like Gonzaga, Butler and Wichita State been able to crack the ranks of perennial at-large teams — thanks to a slew of impressive tourney wins.

But while selection domos are finally seeing there are more outstanding ball clubs where those Johnny-come-lately’s came from, there is still room for improvement in seeding these underrated outfits.

In the first round this year, there were a whopping SEVEN double-digit seeds that knocked off single digit seeds.

Placements were so obviously out-of-whack that many pundits actually predicted low seeds dumping high seeds.

Example: everyone called No. 12 seed Harvard’s “upset” of No. 5 Cincinnati, a household name since the days of Oscar “The Big O” Robertson.

Also, many guessperts correctly predicted North Dakota State, a 12th seed and just recently promoted to Division One, would knock off big-time Oklahoma (a No. 5).

In fact, Duke’s loss to Mercer wasn’t really a huge shock. Just two years ago, Duke, then-seeded No. 2, was booted by No. 15 Lehigh in the opening round.

Now, don’t get MAS wrong; he has tremendous respect for Coach K and the Duke brand.

And this holds true for name teams in other glam conferences as well.

It’s just that the other lesser-known conferences are getting deeper in terms of number of top-level squads.

MAS thinks it’s a sign of the times when an ⤢espn.com tournament headline blares: “Kentucky UPSETS Wichita State”.

Yet, Coach K, for all his coaching greatness, still stubbornly resists facing facts.

Three times in the last eight years, blue blood Duke has been eliminated in the very first round of the NCAA tourney by a low seed.

Yet there Mike Krzyzewski sits — much like Lola — faded feathers in his hair, err, cap; Armani suit cut down to there; drunk on the past.

MORE than half-blind to the reality of today’s Big Dance.

[BillikensWin]

I don't see this ending well.

[Bostonspider]

Nice article, but a little fact checking would be nice. A10 had 6 bids, not 4. And the last time the A10 got just one bid was 2005, and that was the only time in the last 10 years. 6 bids this year, 5 bids last year, 4 in 2012, 3 in 2011, 3 in 2010, 3 in 2009, 3 in 2008, etc. He is overstating his argument by a fair amount.

[ta111]

While his facts on the number of bids earned by the a10 is a little off, he is spot on that coach K was a fool for making those comments and then had to eat crow. The old saying applies -" better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt". It's one thing to promote your team or conference, but another to denigrate another, especially without any factual basis.

[robinreed]

First of all I am surprised that the software did not pick up the spelling errors in the title. This kind of typo is common and I am sure I have made the same or similar error myself however the software should check this.

As to the article I also feel the power conferences are somewhat overrated however the only genuine measure of success is the NCAA national title. Here we see that no private college which is not in a major football conference has won the NC since 1985. This was the great final four in which nova and G-town battled for the championship. A year earlier G-town won the NC and prior to that there were no private non major football conference winners all the way back to the 1964 season when an unnamed Jesuit school from Chicago (unnamed because it is not De Paul) won. Three non football private university winners in over 50 years is by no means acceptable and does not indicate the inferiority of the Big 5 football conferences.

It all comes down to MONEY. There we shall always be at a disadvantage. It is true that Butler almost won a few years ago and in my opinion should have won - but they did not. Please note this does not mean that private universities can not win the NC. Duke won in 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010 but they are in a major football conference. They are by no means the best or near the best football school in the ACC but they still are a member.

Always the problem solver I believe there is of course a way that this unfortunate situation can be remedied. Perhaps all the other BE schools could send their best player to XU for one year and the Muskies may win the NC. Clearly it would benefit the conference to have a NC member. By the way I believe this last sentence qualifies me to write articles of the kind quoted in this thread.

[JOPO]

It all comes down to MONEY. There we shall always be at a disadvantage. It is true that Butler almost won a few years ago and in my opinion should have won - but they did not. Please note this does not mean that private universities can not win the NC. Duke won in 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010 but they are in a major football conference. They are by no means the best or near the best football school in the ACC but they still are a member.

Well, let's try to think of it this way. UCONN won both the men's and women's national titles this year and are NOT in a P5 conference and do not currently field the best football team in their conference. Successful football does not guarantee basketball success just as unsuccessful or no football does not mean basketball failure.

[Michael in Raleigh]

As to the article I also feel the power conferences are somewhat overrated however the only genuine measure of success is the NCAA national title. Here we see that no private college which is not in a major football conference has won the NC since 1985. This was the great final four in which nova and G-town battled for the championship. A year earlier G-town won the NC and prior to that there were no private non major football conference winners all the way back to the 1964 season when an unnamed Jesuit school from Chicago (unnamed because it is not De Paul) won. Three non football private university winners in over 50 years is by no means acceptable and does not indicate the inferiority of the Big 5 football conferences.

It all comes down to MONEY. There we shall always be at a disadvantage. It is true that Butler almost won a few years ago and in my opinion should have won - but they did not. Please note this does not mean that private universities can not win the NC. Duke won in 1991, 1992, 2001, 2010 but they are in a major football conference. They are by no means the best or near the best football school in the ACC but they still are a member.

Yes, but Butler did come within maybe an inch of a halfcourt shot from a running Gordon Heyward of winning. Duke's fourth national title was by the very skin of its teeth. Private, non-FBS universities are fully capable of winning the national title. Again, Butler came within a barely missed shot one year, and a 12-point loss the very next year. They did so not out of the Big East, nor the Atlantic 10, MVC, or the WCC, but merely the Horizon League. So it was not about MONEY for them, at least.

BTW, Marquette did win the national title in the 70's, and I don't believe they still had football at that point.

Now, I do agree that the Power Five leagues do have a leg up. No doubt about it. But if we're focusing on winning the national title as the sole measuring stick, the biggest advantage is really limited to the 6 traditional bluebloods (UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, Indiana, UNC, Duke); "new blood" UConn; near-bluebloods like Louisville, Michigan State, Arizona, and Syracuse; and mega-rich athletic departments like Florida, Michigan, Ohio State, and Texas. Otherwise, how much of an edge have we really seen from the remainder of the 50 Power Five schools? What edge do Maryland, NC State, Wisconsin, Illinois, Tennessee, Arkansas, Baylor, Cal, or Oregon really have over Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, or Xavier? They make more money, yes, but then again, they turn around spend so much of that money on football and on other sports, not really on basketball.

My point is that almost all the national titles since 1980 have been won by those 15 super-rich or very tradition-rich schools. Not all of them have even won one in that period. Exceptions included NC State, Arkansas, and Maryland, but that amounts to only one more than Georgetown and Villanova earned. So it's not as though all of the Power Five schools have some towering edge over leagues like the Big East.

[Bill Marsh]

Interesting discussion. Oh, if things had only been different, here are a few who might have won . . .

2010 - Butler lost to Duke 61-59
2008 - Memphis lost to Kansas in OT
1989 - Seton Hall was robbed of a title in a game which ended 80-79
1987 - Syracuse lost to Indiana 74-73 before they were in a major football conference
1982 - Georgetown lost to North Carolina 63-62 when Freddie brown's brain froze

One of these years . . .

LOL. Isn't that why we're all still here? Because we believe that once again we will see a small private school do what Marquette did in 1977 when they took it to North Carolina? Because this time little guy will get the call from the refs that Seton Hall didn't get in 1989? That Gordon Heyward's shot will fall instead of missing like it did in 2010?

One time before I die. Just once . . .

[BillikensWin]

Interesting discussion. Oh, if things had only been different, here are a few who might have won . . .

2010 - Butler lost to Duke 61-59
2008 - Memphis lost to Kansas in OT
1989 - Seton Hall was robbed of a title in a game which ended 80-79
1987 - Syracuse lost to Indiana 74-73 before they were in a major football conference
1982 - Georgetown lost to North Carolina 63-62 when Freddie brown's brain froze

One of these years . . .

LOL. Isn't that why we're all still here? Because we believe that once again we will see a small private school do what Marquette did in 1977 when they took it to North Carolina? Because this time little guy will get the call from the refs that Seton Hall didn't get in 1989? That Gordon Heyward's shot will fall instead of missing like it did in 2010?

One time before I die. Just once . . .

What was UNLV considered? I thought they were in the Big West when they won it all.

[Bill Marsh]

Interesting discussion. Oh, if things had only been different, here are a few who might have won . . .

2010 - Butler lost to Duke 61-59
2008 - Memphis lost to Kansas in OT
1989 - Seton Hall was robbed of a title in a game which ended 80-79
1987 - Syracuse lost to Indiana 74-73 before they were in a major football conference
1982 - Georgetown lost to North Carolina 63-62 when Freddie brown's brain froze

One of these years . . .

LOL. Isn't that why we're all still here? Because we believe that once again we will see a small private school do what Marquette did in 1977 when they took it to North Carolina? Because this time little guy will get the call from the refs that Seton Hall didn't get in 1989? That Gordon Heyward's shot will fall instead of missing like it did in 2010?

One time before I die. Just once . . .

What was UNLV considered? I thought they were in the Big West when they won it all.

Yes, they were. Good point. I should have included them just as I did Memphis. I didn't because I was only looking at schools that lost in the title game.

Thanks for picking up on that.