Different perspective on St. Johns

[hoops22]

There's been a lot of hysteria from people, myself included, about the imploding situation at St. Johns. But it might not be as bleak as a lot of people suggest. First a few final thoughts on Obekpa. He averaged 3.6 points per game, played a total of two minutes in the biggest game of the year, the BET game vs Providence, and supposedly refused to reenter the game once it was hopelessly lost. He was one of the worst free throw shooters you'l ever see, and couldn't be on the court if they were winning late. And while he blocked shots, he also was guaranteed to have two goal tending calls a game against him, many on shots with no chance of going in. If he was the piece we couldn't afford to lose, than the program was in worse shape than I thought. But lets look at what may happen moving forward. First we may well lose Phil Greene too. But again he's part of the group who's legacy will be an NIT team that spit the bit and refused to compete. They never measured up to their press clippings, the loss isn't that big a deal. Jordan will likely stay. Supposedly his plan has been to stick around for two years and then try for the NBA. He's not going to waste a year sitting out, and even a hardship at Temple doesn't offer a situation any better than St John's. He'll likely be here for next year and then that's it. However, within the week it's possible the front court issues for next year will be addressed. Keith Thomas (6'8) who averaged 16 boards a game in juco will very possibly be coming on board. Granted juco isn't Division 1, but you still need to have a nose for the ball to get that many anywhere. Also both Delarosa brothers might be on board in a couple of days. At 6'11 and 6'10, they provide good size. The three of them, with Christian Jones should clog up the middle, and you still have Dom Pointer, the teams best defender around. Harrison, Jordan and Branch should be able to score points, and Jordan in particular may benefit from an offense that allows him to improvise more and showcase his ability to get to the basket. Will they be a final four team? Of course not. But they might be what they were this year, a bubble team that will flirt with 20 wins, and keep things interesting till the end. We need them to be competitive to bridge things for the 2015 class. Lavin supposedly has the inside track for 3 top 50 recruits. People may say he had that and more with this last group and failed, and that may be true, but it's also true he didn't coach or develop guys any better at UCLA, and he had four sweet 16's and an Elite 8 there. St Johns is in a tough spot regarding Lavin. He almost has to be brought back. Right now there's only an interim president in place at St John's. No big name coach is coming until he knows for certain who's in charge and how much of a commitment to basketball can be expected. Not to mention even AD Monasch is somewhat of a lame duck at this time. No big name coach is stepping into that current situation. Who do you honestly think you're going to get? If Shaka Smart could be had, I'd be all for it, but realistically, that's not happening. Even with these ACC schools supposedly getting so much money, the recent hires at BC and Wake Forest were underwhelming at best. Changing coaches for the sake of change won't help a bit. It will only cause us to lose the inside track we currently have with some of these top recruits for 2015. Ideally Lavin will bring someone new to his staff to be what Dunlap was a few years ago. Back then during timeouts, it was Dunlap doing all the talking and coaching, while Lavin was largely silent. We need a good basketball mind back on the bench. But back to the original point, blowing up everything isn't likely to accomplish anything, and would likely set us back further than ever. We need to get those bigs on board ASAP, try to be competitive next year, and then try again with a heralded recruiting class the following year. Sometimes that doesn't work, as it didn't with this current class, but sometimes it does, as it did for Lavin at UCLA. But in any case it's not as hopeless as it's being made out to be. They can be competitive next year, and possibly good a few years after that. There's really no other choice than to cross our fingers and hope for the best.

[ljay]

Paragraphs are your friend. Unreadable.

[hoops22]

Fine, and next time I won't use any words longer than four letters if that will help you too.

[Jet915]

Coach Lavin on Fox Sports Live - "It's a challenge to coach talent"

Well, atleast he understands that...

[GumbyDamnit!]

I agree that when you have a backcourt as talented as Jordan and Harrison you'll be in most games.

[billyjack]

In addition to Obekpa being awful at free throws with a limited offensive game, God's Gift was the same way. Bad at free throws, and his offense was limited to laying in putbacks. In the win at Marquette, in OT, Gods Gift kept getting sent to the line and missed a ton, but because of foul trouble had to stay out there. Harrison won that game in the end, and I think he's St John's MVP, and he returns.

[ChestRockwell85]

A SANE perspective on St. John's

This program was once on the same level that Syracuse and UConn are now. Carnesecca might not be much but when you have Madison Square Garden as your home court in New York City, you should be able to sell yourself to recruits.

SJU has not won a tournament game since 2000. They made it in 2002, lost in the first round to Wisconsin, then made it in 2011 and got their doors blown off by Gonzaga in the first round. Yes, Steve Lavin was the coach in 2011, but the players were all Norm's.

I am not going to start talking about complete animals like Abe Keita in recent years, or St. John's rich history of JUCOs and Prop 48s, but I will tell you, that when the New Big East was formed we NEEDED teams to step up and St. John's looked like they were going to be one of them. They haven't.

They miss the tournament and get killed in the NIT by Robert Morris on their home court in the first round. They then lose Sampson, Obepka and Hooper. Hooper might be the most over-rated 3 point shooter in Big East history, but he is a loss. Now there is talk of possibly 2 others transferring, and Steve Lavin couldn't be found. Rumors are he already has his feelers out and is contacting California schools.

Lavin, who St. John's fans still talk about like he is a master recruiter, which is LAUGHABLE, has NOBODY coming in for 2014. NOBODY. This was a guy who KNEW he was losing players, and was unable to get ONE commitment for the class of 2014. Just not good at all.

After next year when they lose guys like Pointer, Greene, Branch, Harrison, they are in even BIGGER trouble. Are they going to rely on transfers and JUCOs again?????? What if none of them come?

If I were in charge at St. John's. FIRE LAVIN. UCLA fans warned of this, and everything they said would happen, has happened. The fact there are again, already rumors that he has been contacting other programs should be reason enough. Another NCAA tournament for St. John's is nowhere in sight. Again, get rid of Steve, and start over.

I know for SJU fans at this point, the last thing you want to do is start over again, but Steve has been a flake and you need somebody who is going to bring consistency back to Queens. Lavin is not doing that.

This is the perspective of a fan of the Big East of 25+ years, and somebody who sees about 7 St. John's games a year live. No offense to some of you new members, because you aren't used to what we used to have in the Big East, but back then, when Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, etc. were walking through that door every other night tea, a team like St. John's could be at the bottom of the conference and NOBODY would care. We were still elite. NOW, the Big East needs all the help it can get, St. John's, having tradition, NYC, and MSG, we were hoping would really step up and try to return to their former glory. They have done the complete opposite, and have everybody scratching their heads about what the hell is happening in Queens.

[senditinjerome]

Lavin has 2 years left on his deal...takes him through the 2015-2016

Masiello will get fired from Manhattan for the resume fiasco.

St John's should let Lavin coach out his contract and then hire Masiello...by that time, people will have forgiven/forgotten about the resume incident (like how George O'Leary lied on his resume to ND and then a few years later went to UCF)

Masiello can recruit NYC. look at Manhattan's roster. almost all of the players are from one of the boroughs.

[robinreed]

The BE needs a strong SJU for TV viewership. As someone who has followed the BE for more than 25 years I am amazed at how much our viewership has degraded. In part this is because of going to Fox but that move was necessary as the money was needed by the new BE. I have previously stated that the NYC TV market is more important to the conference than the Creighton, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, Providence and Seton Hall markets combined. If we continue with this years ratings numbers for the next few years we are in trouble.

St. Johns must do whatever is necessary to boost our NYC ratings. If it means Lavin leaves then so be it. If it means he stays and is able to build then good for him. Something must be done. The 4 most important markets to the BE are NYC, Chicago, Philly and DC. Chicago has always been weak NYC and even Philly and DC are down from previous years. We can live with reduced attendance even though we have not experienced it, we can live with having fewer top 25 teams than in previous years but we must have TV ratings in order to grow and not become another Atlantic 10. The first few years of the new BE are the most important. The quality of play is generally there but the viewership is not.

FSN is new but with who does the problem exist and how and when can it be remedied? I believe we should all be pulling for St. Johns.

[SJHooper]

The BE needs a strong SJU for TV viewership. As someone who has followed the BE for more than 25 years I am amazed at how much our viewership has degraded. In part this is because of going to Fox but that move was necessary as the money was needed by the new BE. I have previously stated that the NYC TV market is more important to the conference than the Creighton, Marquette, Butler, Xavier, Providence and Seton Hall markets combined. If we continue with this years ratings numbers for the next few years we are in trouble.

St. Johns must do whatever is necessary to boost our NYC ratings. If it means Lavin leaves then so be it. If it means he stays and is able to build then good for him. Something must be done. The 4 most important markets to the BE are NYC, Chicago, Philly and DC. Chicago has always been weak NYC and even Philly and DC are down from previous years. We can live with reduced attendance even though we have not experienced it, we can live with having fewer top 25 teams than in previous years but we must have TV ratings in order to grow and not become another Atlantic 10. The first few years of the new BE are the most important. The quality of play is generally there but the viewership is not.

FSN is new but with who does the problem exist and how and when can it be remedied? I believe we should all be pulling for St. Johns.

If years down the road we lose FS1 does that mean ESPN would try to grab us again albeit at a lower price? ESPN exposure is till very important and even taking pay cuts it would help us IMO. Unfortunately no one watches FS1.