Welcome to The Holy Land of Hoops

they have 4 regular season games remaining:

@Loyola-Chicago
vs. Drake
@ Bradley
vs. Missouri St.

Missouri St. is currently 17-9 (7-7 in conference) and took Wichita to OT the first time around...Still, I don't see them knocking off the Shockers at home.

Wichita’s best win is @ St. Louis (currently #10)...After that, they have 3 wins against bubble teams - Tennessee, BYU and Indiana St, and a win against Davidson, who is in first place in their league and the presumptive auto-bid for the Southern Conference.

The Valley is way down this year...only Indiana St. is in the bubble discussion, and their chances of getting an at-large are extremely slim at that.

Despite their weak schedule, I still think they deserve a #1 seed because you have no control over how good/bad your conference opponents are. Also, they're everyone's super bowl. Every time they play on the road, their opponent's arena is sold out and the crowd is raucous. They could have done a better job of OOC scheduling, but they prob wanted home-and-homes, which is difficult for them.

Do I think they deserve a one seed if they're undefeated? Yes. Do I think they are one of the best four teams in the country? No.

The run Wichita State is on reminds me of St. Joe's a few years back. They'll get a #1 or #2, but be gone by the end of the first weekend. Although, they do have last year's history.

Dew wrote:Do I think they deserve a one seed if they're undefeated? Yes. Do I think they are one of the best four teams in the country? No.

I agree, going undefeated means you should get a 1 seed pretty much most years. Though they would still get smoked by most of the top 10.

Just look at Gonzaga last year, no one actually thought they were the best team in the country, they just got the benefit of playing in a weak WCC.

butlerguy03 wrote:The run Wichita State is on reminds me of St. Joe's a few years back. They'll get a #1 or #2, but be gone by the end of the first weekend. Although, they do have last year's history.

I've watched the Shockers a couple of times on TV. They play a three guard offense but have a very nice power piece in Early who can also step out and hit the 3. Baker and Van Fleet can shoot with anyone.

IF they run the table, they definitely deserve a #1 draw. No matter where they start I would be shocked if they don't make the Sweet 16.

And Butlerguy, St. Joe made the Elite 8 in 2003 when they were 27-1. They lost to Okie State on a last shot.

If they apply the same standard to them as they do to everyone else, then they will not have earned a #1 seed. Wichita State's SOS is ranked at 104. Just look at who's in front of them.

1. Syracuse (SOS: 64) - (25-0) Also undefeated. End of discussion.
2. Arizona (SOS: 6) - (23-2) Only losses have been to Cal and AZ State on the road. Can match WSU's wins over SLU, BYU, TN, and ISU with Duke, MI, SD State, UCLA. Otherwise WSU hasn't played a team in the top 100 while AZ has beaten a slew of them.
3. Florida (SOS: 29) - (23-2) Only losses are to Wisconsin and UConn on the road. Big wins over Kentucky, Memphis, Missouri, Tennessee & a whole lot more in the top 100
4. Villanova (SOS: 19) - (22-3) Only losses are to Creighton twice and Syracuse on the road. Big wins over Kansas, Iowa, Xavier, St. Joe's & a whole lot more in the top 100
5. Kansas (SOS: 1) - (19-6) Losses are on the road to Florida, Texas, Colorado, and KSU, on a neutral court to Villanova & to San Diego ST at home. BUT big wins over Duke, Iowa State twice, @Oklahoma, New Mexico, Toledo, K State, & OK State.

I'd have a hard time bumping up Wichita State over any of those. They can all match WSU's wins and then some. They all have played much tougher schedules and shouldn't be penalized for that. Most if not all of their losses have been to top teams on the road. They shouldn't be penalized for playing tough road games. They have all accomplished at least as much a sWSU if not more.

Wichita State has only played 4 teams in the top 100. Not their fault, but if they're going to win a championship, they should have to prove themselves against the best teams. Seeding forces them to play some of the better teams along the way. Frankly, they're barely a #2 seed in my book and I could make a good case for them being a #3. I don't see how WSU can complain. These teams lost to teams of a caliber that WSU has hardly faced. If they played a top 30 as 4 of the 5 have, I expect they'd have some losses too. If they didn't, then they'd be a #1 because they'd have earned it by proving themselves.

Does it matter? Not really. If Wichita state is given a #1 seed, I won't complain. They'll still have to play very good teams to win it all. With the S-curve, they'd probably be matched up with #5 as the 2-seed in their region. In other words they'll be facing the team that would have been #1 instead of them. To win it all as a 1-seed, you still have to beat #2, #3 or #4, and one of #5-#8.

butlerguy03 wrote:The run Wichita State is on reminds me of St. Joe's a few years back. They'll get a #1 or #2, but be gone by the end of the first weekend. Although, they do have last year's history.

Good comparison. The Joey's that year did end up losing in the E8 on a buzzer beater by John Lucas Jr. I would think that if Wich St. gets a one seed and makes it to the E8, that would be a hell of a follow up to last year's FF run. Almost Butler-esque.

actually, if they were the last #1 seed, they wouldn't be automatically matched up with the #5 team. The S curve is only done at the #1 seed. It's not automatic that it's in the regional finals 1/8, 2/7, 3/6, and 4/5.

just look last year
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_NCAA_ ... Tournament

1 Louisville vs 6 Duke
4 Gonzaga vs 8 Ohio St
2 Kansas vs 7 Georgetown
3 Indiana vs 5 Miami

As to your list of 5- I'm sorry, but Villanova isn't even remotely close to the #1 line. I think right now it'd be likely Syracuse, Arizona, Florida, and then it's between Kansas and Wichita. Nova right now is likely a 3. Creighton likely ahead of them quite frankly.

GumbyDamnit! wrote:

butlerguy03 wrote:The run Wichita State is on reminds me of St. Joe's a few years back. They'll get a #1 or #2, but be gone by the end of the first weekend. Although, they do have last year's history.

Good comparison. The Joey's that year did end up losing in the E8 on a buzzer beater by John Lucas Jr. I would think that if Wich St. gets a one seed and makes it to the E8, that would be a hell of a follow up to last year's FF run. Almost Butler-esque.

i think the difference between the 03-04 Joe's team and this Wichita team is that the A-10 got 4 bids in 2004, so the A-10 was a pretty solid league that year...not saying that Joe's deserved a #1 seed or they were 1 of the top 4 teams in the country prior to the start of the NCAA tourney, but their league was a lot better than the Valley is this year.

This is a emotional discussion for Creighton fans, because WSU has been our #1 rival the last five years or so.

Do they deserve a number 1 seed if undefeated? Yes.

The only knock would their OOC schedule. However, many fanbases do not understand how hard it is for "high mid major" programs to schedule games. No BCS schools want that game. It is a lose-lose for them. If you lose, you lost to a mid major. If you win, you "only" beat a mid major. It is extremely unfair to penalize them for that.

You can also knock the MVC, but it is the 11th or so ranked conference. I don't see any teams from the 9th, 10th, 12th, 13th ranked conferences going undefeated. It is extremely difficult to do. Furthermore, it is completely out of their control.

Lastly, they made the final four last year.

It should be a no-brainer, imo.