The Holy Land of Hoops

There better be zero excuses for this one. Wagner is coming off an ice cold game. From what I understand they are also missing one of their best players. This needs to be the start of an undefeated run until our Cuse game at MSG if we want to get anywhere. We have cupcakes until then. I'm sure there might be 1 scare or 2 before Cuse, but we need to come out and get the wins in any way possible.

We failed our first test vs. Wisc. and no doubt big media outlets took a step back on us, cooling on us a bit. Sure Wisc. is very good, but we were also supposed to be very good and a possible top 25 team. So no excuses from here on out. The goal from here should be to go undefeated until Cuse. They are our 2nd test. Win that one and we gain instant national attention and it's a major shot in the arm for the conference. We are way overdue to beat them by the way for the newcomers. They only beat Fordham by 14 or so. But if we lose that one, it will look bad for our at large chances. Experts will say "The Johnnies had a few chances to prove they were top 25 material but they failed both" and we might be on the outside looking in from the NIT again. Every ranked game now becomes a major opportunity or a major disappointment because there are not 6-8 ranked teams in our conference anymore. These games become a premium.

Also, why is this game on FS2 and not FS1? Or at least on SNY? From what I understand FS1 is standard with most carriers, but FS2 is premium. Can't they fit 1 more game on FS1 instead of another stupid UFC fight that no one cares about?

Just looking at the schedule- Ken Pom has you winning these next 4 games- at least 83% chance of winning in all 4. They only have the Penn St game as a 65% chance of winning. He's got Penn St 6-0 coming in there.

I think you bring up a great point on the ranked teams. We don't/won't have 6-8 ranked teams in the conference. So, when we play those games we have to take advantage of them. Like Nova last year- only reason they made tourney was because they beat Syracuse and Louisville. If they don't get the chance to play them- 20-14 doesn't look anywhere near as good.

stever20 wrote:Just looking at the schedule- Ken Pom has you winning these next 4 games- at least 83% chance of winning in all 4. They only have the Penn St game as a 65% chance of winning. He's got Penn St 6-0 coming in there.

I think you bring up a great point on the ranked teams. We don't/won't have 6-8 ranked teams in the conference. So, when we play those games we have to take advantage of them. Like Nova last year- only reason they made tourney was because they beat Syracuse and Louisville. If they don't get the chance to play them- 20-14 doesn't look anywhere near as good.

Exactly. That's why I may sound harsh out of other SJ fans, since they are saying "Oh well, it was Wisconsin...it's not a big deal...they are a ranked team and they are good". It's not "oh well" anymore. That was a golden opportunity lost. In the old Big East you can probably make the case that it wasn't that big a deal with tons of future opportunities for ranked wins. But now we may only get a few and Wisconsin was one of those opportunities. Every ranked opponent we face is a chance to make a name for ourselves and get out in the headlines. I'm sick of the excuses. There are none left. We are deep, we have 6 top 100 players including a 5 star #3 PG in the nation, the Big East ROY, the #3 scorer in the Big East last year, a sure-fire NBA player who was on the national team in DR (according to scouts), one of the most explosive players and stat sheet fillers in the country in Pointer, the best shot blocker in the country, etc. Lavin is healthy. The team is healthy (knock on wood). We are in a great conference. We have new uniforms and a new brand. All that is left to do is win. We need to win the Cuse game in the worst way. I feel like losing that game after losing to Wisconsin will only prove the Big East doubters that we are a glorified A-10 even though that's not true, it will appear as such to many fans especially in the ACC. Cuse has beaten us something like 13 times in a row. They lost a lot of talent to the NBA, and we have our most talented team since arguably we made the elite 8 a decade or so ago. It's at MSG at home. Time to win and win now. Put up or shut up. NYC is the kind of city that will turn winners into legends and turn a blind eye to mediocrity. Just one year while I'm alive I want to see SJ go on a huge run i.e. Sweet 16 or better. Is that so much to ask?

Lavinwood wrote:

stever20 wrote:Just looking at the schedule- Ken Pom has you winning these next 4 games- at least 83% chance of winning in all 4. They only have the Penn St game as a 65% chance of winning. He's got Penn St 6-0 coming in there.

I think you bring up a great point on the ranked teams. We don't/won't have 6-8 ranked teams in the conference. So, when we play those games we have to take advantage of them. Like Nova last year- only reason they made tourney was because they beat Syracuse and Louisville. If they don't get the chance to play them- 20-14 doesn't look anywhere near as good.

Exactly. That's why I may sound harsh out of other SJ fans, since they are saying "Oh well, it was Wisconsin...it's not a big deal...they are a ranked team and they are good". It's not "oh well" anymore. That was a golden opportunity lost. In the old Big East you can probably make the case that it wasn't that big a deal with tons of future opportunities for ranked wins. But now we may only get a few and Wisconsin was one of those opportunities. Every ranked opponent we face is a chance to make a name for ourselves and get out in the headlines. I'm sick of the excuses. There are none left. We are deep, we have 6 top 100 players including a 5 star #3 PG in the nation, the Big East ROY, the #3 scorer in the Big East last year, a sure-fire NBA player who was on the national team in DR (according to scouts), one of the most explosive players and stat sheet fillers in the country in Pointer, the best shot blocker in the country, etc. Lavin is healthy. The team is healthy (knock on wood). We are in a great conference. We have new uniforms and a new brand. All that is left to do is win. We need to win the Cuse game in the worst way. I feel like losing that game after losing to Wisconsin will only prove the Big East doubters that we are a glorified A-10 even though that's not true, it will appear as such to many fans especially in the ACC. Cuse has beaten us something like 13 times in a row. They lost a lot of talent to the NBA, and we have our most talented team since arguably we made the elite 8 a decade or so ago. It's at MSG at home. Time to win and win now. Put up or shut up. NYC is the kind of city that will turn winners into legends and turn a blind eye to mediocrity. Just one year while I'm alive I want to see SJ go on a huge run i.e. Sweet 16 or better. Is that so much to ask?

I tell you one thing that could help you guys out is if Georgia Tech, Mississippi, and Penn St continue winning- could make the tourney right after Thanksgiving much better. All could be undefeated, giving you a chance to get 2 wins against undefeated teams which helps the RPI a lot.

Lavinwood wrote:
Also, why is this game on FS2 and not FS1? Or at least on SNY? From what I understand FS1 is standard with most carriers, but FS2 is premium. Can't they fit 1 more game on FS1 instead of another stupid UFC fight that no one cares about?

NASCAR is on Fox Sports 1 that night.

I don't think SNY is much help to people, outside of the NY area it's a premium channel as well.

Lavinwood, I think that you are on target when you say that SJU has to start collecting scalps at some point. But there really is no shame in losing to Wisc on a neutral court early in the season. They just knocked off Florida last night and are probably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the B10. Winning games like that really help, but losing then do not hurt. Your season does not bank on beating either Syr or Wisc. Play both tough, win one if you can, take care of the OOC teams that you should beat down, and finish over .500 in a very balanced league and I think you'll be fine to get in the tourney.

As a conference we need to collectively grab enough quality OOC wins to keep our collective RPI high. Part of that is to avoid bad losses. Last year Nova beat prob the Top 5 teams in the BE (Syr, L'ville, Marq, Gtwn & Uconn) but lost to Columbia. That loss probably cancelled out one of the top wins and/or cost Nova the chance to be a 6 or 7 seed instead of a 9 seed. You guy will probably have 8-12 conference games against teams in the RPI Top 50, so your opportunity for quality wins will be there.

GumbyDamnit! wrote:Lavinwood, I think that you are on target when you say that SJU has to start collecting scalps at some point. But there really is no shame in losing to Wisc on a neutral court early in the season. They just knocked off Florida last night and are probably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the B10. Winning games like that really help, but losing then do not hurt. Your season does not bank on beating either Syr or Wisc. Play both tough, win one if you can, take care of the OOC teams that you should beat down, and finish over .500 in a very balanced league and I think you'll be fine to get in the tourney.

As a conference we need to collectively grab enough quality OOC wins to keep our collective RPI high. Part of that is to avoid bad losses. Last year Nova beat prob the Top 5 teams in the BE (Syr, L'ville, Marq, Gtwn & Uconn) but lost to Columbia. That loss probably cancelled out one of the top wins and/or cost Nova the chance to be a 6 or 7 seed instead of a 9 seed. You guy will probably have 8-12 conference games against teams in the RPI Top 50, so your opportunity for quality wins will be there.

The RPI is very interesting. It would be very surprising if St John's had 8-12 conference games against teams in the RPI top 50. I mean 12 conference games would mean 6 other teams in the RPI top 50. I don't think even the most optimistic person could say that. Last year in a 15 team conference we had 8 teams in.

btw- early season RPI's are the best... Right now- Georgetown is 322. Who is #1? Alcorn State.

btw- Kent State- is #2!!!!!

GumbyDamnit! wrote:Lavinwood, I think that you are on target when you say that SJU has to start collecting scalps at some point. But there really is no shame in losing to Wisc on a neutral court early in the season. They just knocked off Florida last night and are probably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the B10. Winning games like that really help, but losing then do not hurt. Your season does not bank on beating either Syr or Wisc. Play both tough, win one if you can, take care of the OOC teams that you should beat down, and finish over .500 in a very balanced league and I think you'll be fine to get in the tourney.

As a conference we need to collectively grab enough quality OOC wins to keep our collective RPI high. Part of that is to avoid bad losses. Last year Nova beat prob the Top 5 teams in the BE (Syr, L'ville, Marq, Gtwn & Uconn) but lost to Columbia. That loss probably cancelled out one of the top wins and/or cost Nova the chance to be a 6 or 7 seed instead of a 9 seed. You guy will probably have 8-12 conference games against teams in the RPI Top 50, so your opportunity for quality wins will be there.

This team is just very inconsistent. When our guys were freshman they nearly beat Duke and only lost by 7. A pre NBA Harkless ripped them for 30 points. We scared the crap out of them. Then we proceeded to get trounced by other teams, then we beat Cincy when they were ranked. Last season we beat #17 Cincy and #24 Notre Dame, and without a last second miracle layup almost knocked off Marquette who was one of the hottest teams in the country. Didn't work out. But then vs. G'Town we get smacked around like a HS team. There is no level of consistency. One day we hang with Duke and beat top 25 teams, the next day we lose to San Fran. One exhibition we almost lose to SFSU, the next one we win by 60. We just have no identity, no leadership, no plan. I think we are the perfect example of what happens when you have all the individual talent in the world, but no chemistry, bad coaching, and low basketball IQ. We are a team of athletes, not basketball players right now.

As a Jets, Mets, Isles, Knicks, and Johnnies fan, my entire life I've been told "just wait", or "wait until we get this coach or this player!", or "once we get to that point we will REALLY compete for the top!". It never happens. New York sports is awful right now. What a time it would be for the Johnnies to finally wake up from their stupor of mediocrity. In 2011 when we crushed top 10 teams and cracked the top 25, MSG was a madhouse, they were talking about us on ESPN on PTI as a possible Elite 8 team, and the nation was going nuts over us. On the LIRR people would be talking about them. On the news. In papers. On shows. On the radio. It shows what can happen if this team shows it's ready to compete nationally. It just seems there are always excuses and never any real results. And I'm sick of it. Want to be great? Beat great teams.

stever20 wrote:

GumbyDamnit! wrote:Lavinwood, I think that you are on target when you say that SJU has to start collecting scalps at some point. But there really is no shame in losing to Wisc on a neutral court early in the season. They just knocked off Florida last night and are probably the 2nd or 3rd best team in the B10. Winning games like that really help, but losing then do not hurt. Your season does not bank on beating either Syr or Wisc. Play both tough, win one if you can, take care of the OOC teams that you should beat down, and finish over .500 in a very balanced league and I think you'll be fine to get in the tourney.

As a conference we need to collectively grab enough quality OOC wins to keep our collective RPI high. Part of that is to avoid bad losses. Last year Nova beat prob the Top 5 teams in the BE (Syr, L'ville, Marq, Gtwn & Uconn) but lost to Columbia. That loss probably cancelled out one of the top wins and/or cost Nova the chance to be a 6 or 7 seed instead of a 9 seed. You guy will probably have 8-12 conference games against teams in the RPI Top 50, so your opportunity for quality wins will be there.

The RPI is very interesting. It would be very surprising if St John's had 8-12 conference games against teams in the RPI top 50. I mean 12 conference games would mean 6 other teams in the RPI top 50. I don't think even the most optimistic person could say that. Last year in a 15 team conference we had 8 teams in.

btw- early season RPI's are the best... Right now- Georgetown is 322. Who is #1? Alcorn State.

btw- Kent State- is #2!!!!!

RPI now means nothing... Wait until end of January or February when it really starts to mean something. The teams I expect to be in the Top 50 RPI this year for SJU to play are:

Marq
Gtown
Creighton
Nova

Figure SJU has a good chance of seeing one of those in the post season BE tourney and that is 9 games right there. I also think that a Xavier or Prov have a chance as well. I think the BE this year will be no Top 10 RPI teams but a ton between 25 & 50. If Marq cuts down Ohio St and/or Wisconsin or one of our teams knock off some big names in a Holiday Tourney then that may be the only Top team we see. But the rest should be solid; think last year's MWC.

Lavinwood wrote:
Also, why is this game on FS2 and not FS1? Or at least on SNY? From what I understand FS1 is standard with most carriers, but FS2 is premium. Can't they fit 1 more game on FS1 instead of another stupid UFC fight that no one cares about?

I think you raise a lot of good points in your post, most of which I agree with. This issue is something that we will just have to deal with. I myself am a UFC fan, but I am a Marquette fan before that. However, you have to understand that while college basketball is one of the most popular sports in the country, the interest is spread over 350 teams. An extremely good college game such as St. John's v. Syracuse might draw around 500,000-600,000 viewers. A bad UFC card on free tv will draw probably draw 700,000. That's the reality of the situation. FS1 is also paying the UFC over twice as much per year as they are paying the Big East, and that has to be taken into account. I don't know the exact numbers for NASCAR, but I would assume they are similar since NASCAR has a similar sized fanbase to the UFC, maybe a little larger.