If McDermott wins NPOY where will he rank in Big East lore?

[FlyJays]

Doug only having a single season in the Big East will hurt his standings on all time BE players.

As for the comments about he would have the same #'s if he played in the old BE, thats a joke right? I mean his freshman year he would have been playing in a conference where 11 of the 16 teams made the NCAA's and the 9th place team won the National Title. To think he would have had the same type of year against that competition is just silly.

Here is St. John's schedule from that year.

@WVU
@Prov
GTown
@ND
Cuse
ND
@UofL
Cincy
@GTown
Rutgers
UConn
@Cincy
@Marq
Pitt
DePaul
@Nova
@Seton Hall
USF

Thats 13 games in conference against tournament teams. The MVC at it's best couldn't even come close to comparing to this.

This argument is the same as those who doubted him coming into this season. Nobody is arguing the MVC was anywhere near the Big East. Would Doug have averaged 25pts as a freshman in the Big East? Nope. He didn't in the Valley either (14.9). I don't think its outside the realm of possibility that he would have put up similar numbers in the Big East the same way he did in the Valley for three years. His Freshman year, Creighton played four "BCS" teams. He put up numbers of 16, 20, 14, 10. Right at his average. His sophomore year, against Alabama (16 pts), #1 UNC (20 pts), and three other BCS teams, (25, 24, 27) he again proved that his numbers don't dip against better competition. Last year, he put up 31 on Wisconsin, 29 on ASU, 34 on Cal, 27 against Cincinnati, and 21 against Duke. It's a statistical fact that he has put up better career numbers against BCS teams that he did in MVC conference play. This year he's continuing the trend by shredding the Big East for the best numbers of his career. Jay Wright said it. It doesn't matter who the kid is playing against, he's going to score and he's going to produce at a very efficient clip.

[NJRedman]

Doug only having a single season in the Big East will hurt his standings on all time BE players.

As for the comments about he would have the same #'s if he played in the old BE, thats a joke right? I mean his freshman year he would have been playing in a conference where 11 of the 16 teams made the NCAA's and the 9th place team won the National Title. To think he would have had the same type of year against that competition is just silly.

Here is St. John's schedule from that year.

@WVU
@Prov
GTown
@ND
Cuse
ND
@UofL
Cincy
@GTown
Rutgers
UConn
@Cincy
@Marq
Pitt
DePaul
@Nova
@Seton Hall
USF

Thats 13 games in conference against tournament teams. The MVC at it's best couldn't even come close to comparing to this.

This argument is the same as those who doubted him coming into this season. Nobody is arguing the MVC was anywhere near the Big East. Would Doug have averaged 25pts as a freshman in the Big East? Nope. He didn't in the Valley either (14.9). I don't think its outside the realm of possibility that he would have put up similar numbers in the Big East the same way he did in the Valley for three years. His Freshman year, Creighton played four "BCS" teams. He put up numbers of 16, 20, 14, 10. Right at his average. His sophomore year, against Alabama (16 pts), #1 UNC (20 pts), and three other BCS teams, (25, 24, 27) he again proved that his numbers don't dip against better competition. Last year, he put up 31 on Wisconsin, 29 on ASU, 34 on Cal, 27 against Cincinnati, and 21 against Duke. It's a statistical fact that he has put up better career numbers against BCS teams that he did in MVC conference play. This year he's continuing the trend by shredding the Big East for the best numbers of his career. Jay Wright said it. It doesn't matter who the kid is playing against, he's going to score and he's going to produce at a very efficient clip.

There is a difference between four "BCS teams" and 11 NCAA tournament teams. Also looking at that year, the 4 bcs teams were Northwestern who never made an NCAA, Nebraska who isn't any type of BBall power, Iowa St, who is a solid mid-pack team, they played Oregon in three games in the CBI for some reason (Is that really how the CBI finals works?) and lost two out of three. So that year they went 1-5 against "BCS teams". I don't think he averages 14 points a game in the Big East that year. He might not hit his stride until his Jr year if he plays in the Big East from the get go. He might not even had seen the floor a whole lot if he was on most of the BE squads his freshman year. Definitely coming off the bench for sure if he is on most BE teams that year.

You can't just take a handful of games and say he could have handled the night in night out of the toughest conference in the country.

[IowaJay]

Doug only having a single season in the Big East will hurt his standings on all time BE players.

As for the comments about he would have the same #'s if he played in the old BE, thats a joke right? I mean his freshman year he would have been playing in a conference where 11 of the 16 teams made the NCAA's and the 9th place team won the National Title. To think he would have had the same type of year against that competition is just silly.
[...]

Thats 13 games in conference against tournament teams. The MVC at it's best couldn't even come close to comparing to this.

This argument is the same as those who doubted him coming into this season. Nobody is arguing the MVC was anywhere near the Big East. Would Doug have averaged 25pts as a freshman in the Big East? Nope. He didn't in the Valley either (14.9). I don't think its outside the realm of possibility that he would have put up similar numbers in the Big East the same way he did in the Valley for three years. His Freshman year, Creighton played four "BCS" teams. He put up numbers of 16, 20, 14, 10. Right at his average. His sophomore year, against Alabama (16 pts), #1 UNC (20 pts), and three other BCS teams, (25, 24, 27) he again proved that his numbers don't dip against better competition. Last year, he put up 31 on Wisconsin, 29 on ASU, 34 on Cal, 27 against Cincinnati, and 21 against Duke. It's a statistical fact that he has put up better career numbers against BCS teams that he did in MVC conference play. This year he's continuing the trend by shredding the Big East for the best numbers of his career. Jay Wright said it. It doesn't matter who the kid is playing against, he's going to score and he's going to produce at a very efficient clip.

There is a difference between four "BCS teams" and 11 NCAA tournament teams. Also looking at that year, the 4 bcs teams were Northwestern who never made an NCAA, Nebraska who isn't any type of BBall power, Iowa St, who is a solid mid-pack team, they played Oregon in three games in the CBI for some reason (Is that really how the CBI finals works?) and lost two out of three. So that year they went 1-5 against "BCS teams". I don't think he averages 14 points a game in the Big East that year. He might not hit his stride until his Jr year if he plays in the Big East from the get go. He might not even had seen the floor a whole lot if he was on most of the BE squads his freshman year. Definitely coming off the bench for sure if he is on most BE teams that year.

You can't just take a handful of games and say he could have handled the night in night out of the toughest conference in the country.

Doug's situation is unique: he's an All-American who moved with his team to a new conference. I think it is clear that the 2013-14 version of McDermott is the best yet. So, arguments about his freshman campaign seem hardly applicable since he was neither in the Big East at the time nor as good as he is now. The question is whether he can be outstanding enough *this* year to carve a small, memorable place for his name in the pantheon of great players from the past and the great players of the future. The BE deal with FS1 has made it possible for many fans to see almost all BE conference games. They can judge for themselves how good Doug is. However, there is little doubt in my mind that if Doug had the same stats but CU was .500 that the accolades would not come as easily. Further, if CU doesn't show well in the BE Tournament and/or falters early in the NCAAs, McDermott will remembered--even if he wins NPOY--less readily among the greats of the BE. I think the same could be said of a 6-8 forward who played one year in the BE: Carmelo Anthony. SU won the regular season, lost in the conference semis, and then won the national championship. However, the Orange nearly lost in the regional semis--a 79-78 victory over #10 seed, Auburn. Anthony earned MOP for the tournament. But Naismith and Wooden National Player of the Year award winners don't come along every day. I'm enjoying it! GO JAYS!

[redmen9194]

McDermott is no doubt going to hold his place in Big East history and he deserves too. It's just that you really can't compare himtonthe guys who played threecor four years in the league and I'm not sure he would have the career numbers he has if he was in the old big east. While he played four BCS teams over the course of a season, he would have had to play four top 25 teams in the course of 10 days at times. And the teams outside the top 25 were not necessarily push overs for the most part. That type of grind wears you out and one bad game easily be ones 2 or 3. Who knows, maybe he would have been fine. But for me I don't think you can say he is one of the top big east players of all time with ine year in. But that's an opinion and everyone is entitled to their own.

[handdownmandown]

There's no way that he compares to Mullin or Ewing.

However, these days, no one will. Anyone worth their salts like those two will be gone in a year or two. LeBron could show up on someone's roster and he wouldn't match either one of those two.

Really, the best thing would probably be to say Doug will go down in history as one of the greatest ever to play in the new Big East, because looking to the future, many/most of the 1st team AA's will be gone after that AA season anyway. It's the new normal.

[Randy]

There is zero doubt in my mind that Doug would have the same career numbers he has right now if he was in the Big East the last three seasons as opposed to the MVC. He has torched every team he has played.

However, just like the debate as to what his numbers would be in the 80s BE, it is a completely hypothetical discussion. Others could reasonbly come to a different conclusion, and nobody will ever know who is correct.

The only thing i know for sure is he will end up a Top 10 all-time scorer in NCAA history (very possibly Top 5), Two-time MVC player of the year, One-time BE player of the year, One-time Wooden Award Winner (a virtual certainty) , and Three-time 1st team All American.

What he has done for Creighton can't be put into words or numbers. Simply put, without him we would not be in the Big East. I can appreciate a carrer like that on its own merits, and I am extremely lucky to have seen it in person for four years.

[redmen9194]

It's an outstanding career for sure.

[Omaha1]

I apologize for my lack of knowledge on BigEast history, but can someone list for me the players from this conference who have won the Wooden or Naismith awards?

[marquette]

I apologize for my lack of knowledge on BigEast history, but can someone list for me the players from this conference who have won the Wooden or Naismith awards?

Big East
Wooden: Chris Mullin (St. John's), Walter Berry (St. John's),
Naismith: Patrick Ewing (G'town)

Not Big East
Naismith: Butch Lee (Marquette), Mark Aguirre (DePaul)

It's not an extensive list.

[NJRedman]

There is zero doubt in my mind that Doug would have the same career numbers he has right now if he was in the Big East the last three seasons as opposed to the MVC. He has torched every team he has played.

However, just like the debate as to what his numbers would be in the 80s BE, it is a completely hypothetical discussion. Others could reasonbly come to a different conclusion, and nobody will ever know who is correct.

The only thing i know for sure is he will end up a Top 10 all-time scorer in NCAA history (very possibly Top 5), Two-time MVC player of the year, One-time BE player of the year, One-time Wooden Award Winner (a virtual certainty) , and Three-time 1st team All American.

What he has done for Creighton can't be put into words or numbers. Simply put, without him we would not be in the Big East. I can appreciate a carrer like that on its own merits, and I am extremely lucky to have seen it in person for four years.

Not a chance. You new guys underestimate the rugged schedule we used to have. You have three conferences where the conference leaders are former Big East members (Nova, Cuse, Cincy), McDermotts freshman year he would have been going against 11 teams in conference who would make the NCAA's. Thinking the kid who averaged 14 points in the MVC would "torch" these ranked teams night in night out is unrealistic. The national champs finished 9-9 and in 9th place in the conference. This is why we say the MVC couldn't hold a candle to the old Big East. And when we say the old Big East we mean the 16 team behemoth, not the 1984 3 teams in the Final Four old Big East. We're not trying to put anyone down, just trying to explain how insanely tough that conference line up was. It almost had to break up, it was just too much.